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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 317880 times)

Offline ROBBO

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #915 on: February 27, 2017, 09:28:59 AM »
Reliance on the fitness of one player leads to disaster, we are reliant on one player who is a week to week proposition of course I'm referring to Jedinak, even though he could hardly run for the last twenty minutes he is fundamental to our results. We must get cover for him above everything else.

Offline themossman

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #916 on: February 27, 2017, 09:30:05 AM »
Yes important to think about both halves of Bruce's tenure. For a while we were hard to break down and kept our fair share of clean sheets. The consistent problem has been lack of goals.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #917 on: February 27, 2017, 09:55:44 AM »
I don't think wanting to stick with a manager who has got a good track record of getting teams promoted is blind faith.

Of course it is, what you're saying is that we should ignore what has happened whilst he's been at the club and focus on what he's done elsewhere because if we give him time he will replicate it. Remember he also has a solid track record of getting teams relegated and if we're leaving this division this season that's the way we'd be going.  Next season might be better but on the evidence of what he's done as Villa manager there is no certainty to that.  To me all of those things combined suggest that the people calling for stability and for him to get 10 games next season or until Christmas are doing it on blind faith that he can repeat what he's done elsewhere even if there have been few signs of it in his time at the club.  If there was something in our play to suggest that his training techniques are starting to work then it would be more objective but there really isn't, if anything we're a worse team now than we were when he arrived, despite having spent a lot in the window.

Offline john e

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #918 on: February 27, 2017, 10:08:08 AM »
paul e,
why does it seem you are a bigger critic of Bruce than even me (well maybe not )
yet still want him to stay on

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #919 on: February 27, 2017, 11:15:33 AM »
paul e,
why does it seem you are a bigger critic of Bruce than even me (well maybe not )
yet still want him to stay on

I want him to prove me wrong, I want him to do something he's never done in his management career and make us look like the big club we are.  I thought he was a 'quick fix' easy choice to get us straight back up but my worry was always "what if he doesn't?" and now that he's failed to even come close to getting us in the playoffs I want him to show that he deserves a chance to be something more.  I want that because I want us to score goals and win games and I want teams to be scared to play us.

In terms of wanting him to stay or go if it was down to me he'd be out the door in early April and I'd spend the time between now and then sounding out a replacement to the point where they could come in the day after he went.  I don't think that will happen because I think Wyness sees Bruce as a long term option and because I think a large number of our fans have decided that he's the only man for the job and won't put pressure on the board to change their minds.

My concern therefore is mostly around why people have got themselves to that point and what it will take for them to change their minds.  I don't get this idea that some people have that we have a choice between playing good football or winning games.  We should be playing good football TO win games but I think for some fans the only options for Villa are to go with Bruce's pragmatism or Mowbray's toothlessness with nothing in between.

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #920 on: February 27, 2017, 12:20:09 PM »
I think it is Manager turnover fatigue, change hasn't worked so let's try stability.
Because of this he is getting far more leniency than his results warrant.


Online aj2k77

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #921 on: February 27, 2017, 12:38:22 PM »
Manager turnover fatigue is what saved Lambert for so long, let's not fall in to the same trap again. If someone isn't getting the results and aren't doing their job good enough then it doesn't matter what's came before them, they need to go.

Offline Clampy

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #922 on: February 27, 2017, 01:37:33 PM »
paul e,
why does it seem you are a bigger critic of Bruce than even me (well maybe not )
yet still want him to stay on
I don't think that will happen because I think Wyness sees Bruce as a long term option and because I think a large number of our fans have decided that he's the only man for the job and won't put pressure on the board to change their minds.

My concern therefore is mostly around why people have got themselves to that point and what it will take for them to change their minds.  I don't get this idea that some people have that we have a choice between playing good football or winning games. 

Why do you want people to change their minds? I don't want you to change yours, your opinion is just as valid as mine and Ad's. You seem unable to accept that we think Bruce deserves a crack at a pre-season and for him to go into next.

Offline Chico Hamilton III

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #923 on: February 27, 2017, 01:42:32 PM »
Has Bruce ever got a team relegated to the third tier?

Offline cdbullyweefan

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #924 on: February 27, 2017, 01:47:44 PM »
I don't think so, but we have been brilliant at breaking records this decade.

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #925 on: February 27, 2017, 01:58:50 PM »
Manager turnover fatigue is what saved Lambert for so long, let's not fall in to the same trap again. If someone isn't getting the results and aren't doing their job good enough then it doesn't matter what's came before them, they need to go.
Agree, I think this is where the Bruce supporters are, not necessarily the club.

Offline Chris Smith

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #926 on: February 27, 2017, 02:07:08 PM »
Manager turnover fatigue is what saved Lambert for so long, let's not fall in to the same trap again. If someone isn't getting the results and aren't doing their job good enough then it doesn't matter what's came before them, they need to go.

While we are still counting his tenure in months not years it is not really an appropriate comparison.


Offline john e

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #927 on: February 27, 2017, 02:15:20 PM »
paul e,
why does it seem you are a bigger critic of Bruce than even me (well maybe not )
yet still want him to stay on
I don't think that will happen because I think Wyness sees Bruce as a long term option and because I think a large number of our fans have decided that he's the only man for the job and won't put pressure on the board to change their minds.

My concern therefore is mostly around why people have got themselves to that point and what it will take for them to change their minds.  I don't get this idea that some people have that we have a choice between playing good football or winning games. 

Why do you want people to change their minds? I don't want you to change yours, your opinion is just as valid as mine and Ad's. You seem unable to accept that we think Bruce deserves a crack at a pre-season and for him to go into next.


I think he will have to go some to change my mind
there's not been one single second when I have thought 'ooh I'm glad we've got Steve Bruce as our manager exciting times ahead'
I have never liked Bruce's teams in the past, no matter where he's been I've never thought 'now there's a man that could do a job for villa'

I've always thought he was a jobsworth old school old fashioned manager with limited tactical nouse whos teams played boring football and every now and then ground out a few decent results enough to keep him on the merry go round for useless British managers in the old boy network, I actually hate all that shit

and since he's been with us I haven't seen anything to change my mind

Offline Gareth

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #928 on: February 27, 2017, 02:33:03 PM »
If we can get wins over Bristol City & Rotherham this week it would be the ideal scenario for me, obviously the points will set to one side the prospect of relegation but more importantly it will give a few games where there is no excuse of nerves etc for the team to show progress.  We absolutely have to see that there is a pattern of play and the team have more than this walking pace, hoofball, defensive nonsense that we have been subjected to for weeks now.

I've said it several times that I want Bruce to succeed but if we get to end of season still playing rubbish football it has to be questionable whether Bruce will ever get a tune out of the players at his disposal.

Looking at Saturdays team there were only 3 players from Jan, one of which was here from start of Jan so they should be integrating now, the entire team still look like strangers, no tempo to the passing or movement...can't just keep throwing 's at it, have to see progress from training pitch!

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #929 on: February 27, 2017, 02:57:35 PM »
paul e,
why does it seem you are a bigger critic of Bruce than even me (well maybe not )
yet still want him to stay on
I don't think that will happen because I think Wyness sees Bruce as a long term option and because I think a large number of our fans have decided that he's the only man for the job and won't put pressure on the board to change their minds.

My concern therefore is mostly around why people have got themselves to that point and what it will take for them to change their minds.  I don't get this idea that some people have that we have a choice between playing good football or winning games. 

Why do you want people to change their minds? I don't want you to change yours, your opinion is just as valid as mine and Ad's. You seem unable to accept that we think Bruce deserves a crack at a pre-season and for him to go into next.

Can you read?

I said I'd like to know what it would take for people to change their minds.  We got 1 point in 9 games and you were happily accepting it.

You say you don't want me to change mine but you've called my opinion wrong repeatedly over the last few months, when we had a bounce you told me I was wrong when I said it wouldn't last if we didn't play better, then we had a run of defeats and you shifted from it being all about results to it being about needing time.  I'm normally supportive of managers and I'm normally positive but I just don't see the point in allowing time for Bruce to develop the squad into his team, if that happens we end up as what Hull are now, or what Sunderland were when he left, or Blues, or Wigan, I don't want us to waste a 2nd chance with a rich owner by wasting money on over the hill journeymen and hitting a ceiling again and I don't see how Bruce, long term, is doing anything but leading us down the same path.