collapse

Please donate to help keep this site going.

* The Fanzine

Heroes & Villains Fanzine



Get your fix of all things Claret & Blue by subscribing to the online version!

Recent Posts

Re: QPR v Aston Villa Post Match Thread by Ads
[Today at 03:50:06 PM]


Re: QPR v Aston Villa Post Match Thread by myf
[Today at 03:44:51 PM]


Re: Other Games - 2017/18 by wittonwarrior
[Today at 03:31:17 PM]


Re: Short term - back up to Davis by XXVilla
[Today at 03:20:35 PM]


Re: Other Games - 2017/18 by aj2k77
[Today at 03:12:35 PM]

Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 319025 times)

Online paul_e

  • player manager
  • *
  • Posts: 14778
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Back from the frozen North
  • GM : July, 2013
Re: Bruce out
« Reply #840 on: February 26, 2017, 12:42:28 PM »
I was typing on my phone but the context you gave was about the summer, when RDM was the manager not Bruce and yet after 10 games you were posting that RDM needed to be sacked.  So I ask again why didn't he get to use the excuse that you are now using to Bruce?

On this you're contradicting yourself almost as much as you do on the match threads where post Barnesley, Ipswich and Forest we'd created loads of chances and deserved something but when we win it doesn't matter how shit we are.

What I don't understand is why you think Bruce deserves this commitment from you.  Clampy has been very supportive of him as well but he will at least offer criticism where it's warranted without qualification, you can't say anything bad about him without having a excuse ready to go and it's just odd.

Offline Chris Smith

  • prolific poster
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 31578
  • Location: Blissful ignorance
  • GM : 18.07.2017
Re: Bruce out
« Reply #841 on: February 26, 2017, 01:08:35 PM »
I was typing on my phone but the context you gave was about the summer, when RDM was the manager not Bruce and yet after 10 games you were posting that RDM needed to be sacked.  So I ask again why didn't he get to use the excuse that you are now using to Bruce?

On this you're contradicting yourself almost as much as you do on the match threads where post Barnesley, Ipswich and Forest we'd created loads of chances and deserved something but when we win it doesn't matter how shit we are.

What I don't understand is why you think Bruce deserves this commitment from you.  Clampy has been very supportive of him as well but he will at least offer criticism where it's warranted without qualification, you can't say anything bad about him without having a excuse ready to go and it's just odd.

Sacking two managers in a season still with a dozen games left to play smacks of a club in total disarray. We just do not need yet another massive upheaval. Every opportunity should be afforded to Bruce to do what he had demonstrated previously that he is good at. Perhaps RDM might have been allowed more time, although I am unconvinced by the arguments, but it has gone now so is not particularly relevant.

Offline brontebilly

  • international
  • *
  • Posts: 3256
  • GM : Jan, 2013
Re: Bruce out
« Reply #842 on: February 26, 2017, 01:11:36 PM »
The win has bought him the rest of this season.
Unless he can get this team playing in a way that suggests he can get promotion next season then he should be gone.

We are hardly out of danger just yet?

Beat Bristol I guess and we should be ok.

Agreed on your second point, doubt we have put two consistent performances (good ones!) under Bruce as of yet.

Offline Ads

  • prolific poster
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 20632
  • Location: The upside down
  • GM : 13.02.2017
Re: Bruce out
« Reply #843 on: February 26, 2017, 01:13:59 PM »
You're talking nonsense Paul. I criticise his mistakes routinely, with the way he sets things up that I don't agree with, the same as I have with very manager since I started posting on here.

If you're going to try and frame my views or play the man instead of the ball, then there's no real point to it is there. Just call me a happy clapper or say Bruce is my messiah; something equally tedious and asinine as that and be done with it. Save everybody else getting bored.

Offline RichardBatchelor

  • trialist
  • *
  • Posts: 111
Re: Bruce out
« Reply #844 on: February 26, 2017, 01:21:27 PM »
Sacking him now would be nonsense imo.

Online myf

  • international
  • *
  • Posts: 2652
Re: Bruce out
« Reply #845 on: February 26, 2017, 01:25:40 PM »
Golden chance for him this week to turn things around. I'm not confident about him after what we've seen in 2017 but if we're on 43 points this time next week he should have the remainder of the season to persuade us he is building a team for promotion next year.

I could see the logic in getting rid if he we hadn't signed all those players but it could get messy with more compo and disgruntled squad dealing with a new manager

Offline john e

  • player manager
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12950
  • GM : 01.08.2016
Re: Bruce out
« Reply #846 on: February 26, 2017, 01:27:53 PM »
he's the poorest choice of manager we've ever made because just as we really needed the best to lead us out of the mire we appointed the worst to lead us deeper into it

I really don't see why sticking with him serves any long term purpose at all

he will leave us playing the shitest football to the lowest crowds and further away from the premier league than at any time in the last 40 years

I'm pretty despondent at the moment,  you might have picked up on that



Online paul_e

  • player manager
  • *
  • Posts: 14778
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Back from the frozen North
  • GM : July, 2013
Re: Bruce out
« Reply #847 on: February 26, 2017, 01:28:25 PM »
I was typing on my phone but the context you gave was about the summer, when RDM was the manager not Bruce and yet after 10 games you were posting that RDM needed to be sacked.  So I ask again why didn't he get to use the excuse that you are now using to Bruce?

On this you're contradicting yourself almost as much as you do on the match threads where post Barnesley, Ipswich and Forest we'd created loads of chances and deserved something but when we win it doesn't matter how shit we are.

What I don't understand is why you think Bruce deserves this commitment from you.  Clampy has been very supportive of him as well but he will at least offer criticism where it's warranted without qualification, you can't say anything bad about him without having a excuse ready to go and it's just odd.

Sacking two managers in a season still with a dozen games left to play smacks of a club in total disarray. We just do not need yet another massive upheaval. Every opportunity should be afforded to Bruce to do what he had demonstrated previously that he is good at. Perhaps RDM might have been allowed more time, although I am unconvinced by the arguments, but it has gone now so is not particularly relevant.

It is when the justification being used to defend Bruce is "We started the season from arguably the lowest ebb in our history".  That's my point.  If you honestly believe that then giving the new manager who came into that shit 10 games before calling for his head is shocking.  To then act like people who don't like his replacement are being hasty is just being a massive hypocrite.

The bold bit is my real bugbear though this idea that Bruce will definitely sort things out if we just give him long enough.  Yes he's got teams promoted, but he's also then got them relegated again and he hasn't left any long-term positives at any club.  Fundamentally he's managed a lot of seasons in this league because it's his level.  When we switched from "get back up this season at all costs" to "build our way back" he became a poor fit for the club.  I don't think we need to sack him now (although another defeat or 2 and we'd have had to look at it to keep ourselves safe) but I don't see the benefit of giving him the summer and this idea that we give him the summer and then review after 10 games is bizarre, that's just asking to throw away another season.

Offline Salsa Party Animal

  • first team
  • *
  • Posts: 2119
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Trinity Road Lower Stand or Dance-floor or Bedroom.
    • http://www.youtube.com/user/Salsapartyanimal
Re: Bruce out
« Reply #848 on: February 26, 2017, 01:29:58 PM »
I wonder what would RDM do with all the new signings from Steve Bruce. I reckon it will be better due with Hogan and midfield.

Offline Ads

  • prolific poster
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 20632
  • Location: The upside down
  • GM : 13.02.2017
Re: Bruce out
« Reply #849 on: February 26, 2017, 01:30:37 PM »
You only stick with somebody if you're confident they'll turn it around. I am with Bruce, I wasn't with RDM. It's simple.

As to worst candidate, McLiesh was easily the stupidest decision ever taken in the clubs history.

Offline john e

  • player manager
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12950
  • GM : 01.08.2016
Re: Bruce out
« Reply #850 on: February 26, 2017, 01:35:37 PM »
You only stick with somebody if you're confident they'll turn it around. I am with Bruce, I wasn't with RDM. It's simple.

As to worst candidate, McLiesh was easily the stupidest decision ever taken in the clubs history.

it's a close call,
 but Mcliesh for me just nicks being the best of the two because of the trophy cabinet full of silverware, and the fact he even won the unwashed a trophy that we never thought would happen in a thousand years

Offline ChicagoLion

  • international
  • *
  • Posts: 4429
  • Location: Chicago
Re: Bruce out
« Reply #851 on: February 26, 2017, 01:36:02 PM »
The win has bought him the rest of this season.
Unless he can get this team playing in a way that suggests he can get promotion next season then he should be gone.

We are hardly out of danger just yet?

Beat Bristol I guess and we should be ok.

Agreed on your second point, doubt we have put two consistent performances (good ones!) under Bruce as of yet.
I think we agree mate.

Online brian green

  • player manager
  • *
  • Posts: 10767
  • Location: Nice France
Re: Bruce out
« Reply #852 on: February 26, 2017, 01:54:00 PM »
Of late I have thought a lot about desert movies.  Lawrence of Arabia, Flight of The Phoenix, Ice Cold in Alex and the rest.  They always have a part where the doomed ones, staggering across a featureless, burning wilderness come upon something - a dead camel, a KFC chicken bucket- that makes them realise they have been walking in a circle.  Our dead camel is Alex McLeish.  We have come back to him.

I don't want Bruce sacked.  We have tried manager shuffling. Perhaps not giving a shit about the manager might be less painful.  I am going to give it a try.

Offline simboy

  • youth team
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 316
  • GM : 04.03.2016
Re: Bruce out
« Reply #853 on: February 26, 2017, 02:17:29 PM »
so the choice is do we continue with the policy that's seen us have seven permenant (and several caretakers)managers in seven years and end up in the second tier of English football or do we try something we haven't tried for a while? A touch of stability.

I'm not sure how many transfer windows each manager has had since MON left however getting a team doesn't take one window, instead two or three no matter who you are.

Who is bought may not settle in on day one. That doesn't make them a bad buy however a good way of unsettling them and almost guarantee us not seeing them realise their potential is to change the manager who bought them.

Changing managers also allows the likes of gabby and Grealish to get away with what they want ... wait six months and a new manager will give them their chance again. I wonder if the attitude change of gabby is that he's been informed by the new regime above Bruce this is it, he's stayed me for at least a couple of years.

I'm no real fan of Bruce, his football is turgid and functional from what I've seen. However we are where we are, hopefully the good Dr has got his back room staff right. To change Bruce before he's had the real opportunity to prove he can change the team seems wrong to me at this stage. Quick fixes haven't worked in the recent past and are unlikely to work in the future as far as I see

...we cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them ... I'm with Einstein on that one

What is clear that we have been a basket case since Learner got bored with us and I am hopeful the new regime can get us going forward and back to where we should be.

Offline brontebilly

  • international
  • *
  • Posts: 3256
  • GM : Jan, 2013
Re: Bruce out
« Reply #854 on: February 26, 2017, 02:38:43 PM »
so the choice is do we continue with the policy that's seen us have seven permenant (and several caretakers)managers in seven years and end up in the second tier of English football or do we try something we haven't tried for a while? A touch of stability.

I'm not sure how many transfer windows each manager has had since MON left however getting a team doesn't take one window, instead two or three no matter who you are.

Who is bought may not settle in on day one. That doesn't make them a bad buy however a good way of unsettling them and almost guarantee us not seeing them realise their potential is to change the manager who bought them.

Changing managers also allows the likes of gabby and Grealish to get away with what they want ... wait six months and a new manager will give them their chance again. I wonder if the attitude change of gabby is that he's been informed by the new regime above Bruce this is it, he's stayed me for at least a couple of years.

I'm no real fan of Bruce, his football is turgid and functional from what I've seen. However we are where we are, hopefully the good Dr has got his back room staff right. To change Bruce before he's had the real opportunity to prove he can change the team seems wrong to me at this stage. Quick fixes haven't worked in the recent past and are unlikely to work in the future as far as I see

...we cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them ... I'm with Einstein on that one

What is clear that we have been a basket case since Learner got bored with us and I am hopeful the new regime can get us going forward and back to where we should be.

Benitez didn't need multiple transfer windows at Newcastle, nor Hughton at Brighton, Monk at Leeds etc to oversee a dramatic improvement. Bruce and RDM before him have had an unprecedented budget at this level that demands immediate promotion to be honest.

I'm all for stability but it has to be earned. If anything we gave the likes of Lambert and Sherwood to mention two far too long. I hope a serious assessment of Bruce's future is done in the summer as I'm thinking there won't be a fraction of the same budget available in the summer.