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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 317099 times)

Online Chris Smith

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7905 on: November 10, 2017, 09:06:08 AM »
The celebrating defeat thing probably comes from people who see posters almost revelling in being proven right when we suffer a defeat. Not happy with defeat because that would be crazy (though some say they'd take it if it were to get rid of him).

We've been on a pretty good run and yet one defeat resulted in people suggesting we were failing again and he should go.

In a similar vein, us folks that don't think he should go yet enjoy victories and undefeated runs and want him to be given a chance when it happens.

And in a similar vein, most of us who think he's a cholesterol-headed has-been-and-in-fact-never-was, tend to keep quiet during the brief good times because who'd want to come on here moaning when, despite the aesthetic ennui, the results are going the way we all want. But then when his sub-agricultural set-up sees all of our well-signposted fears/predictions made flesh, we reserve the right to resume having a pop at him because, well, we're right.

Despite my chronic overuse of the word 'we' above, I don't claim to speak for any other posters.

Despite the flowery Rees-Mogg lite approach

Flowery? Rees-Mogg? I think you need to stop reading the Daily Express if you think that was flowery.

What the Express has to do with anything I have no idea but I do know that “cholesterol headed” and “aesthetic ennui” are not in there to make your point more succinctly.

Online Chris Smith

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7906 on: November 10, 2017, 09:11:44 AM »
It's the patterns beyond the league position that are important for me. 
This is the sentence that sums things up well. Almost regardless of the win-draw-loss cycle that the current manager achieves, the underlying theme is of a squad not operating to a credible strategy, with flexible tactics and game-management to keep opposition managers guessing. If you believe the disparaging quote on here from Scott Hogan that training consists of bibs and cones ("pullovers for goalposts"), I despair ...
... not of ever not being promoted, but of actually being promoted. With this squad and this manager we would get humiliated. And to those who say that Tony will simply buy a new squad, I don't see how that will work. The promoted sides that thrive tend to build on an already-existing core of players who play to a discernible style and ethos and who have a togetherness built on belief of the manager's capabilities.
I don't get that vibe with Villa right now.

I think a number of players will need to be replaced but by no means all of them. If you recall Wyness talked of building three teams; one for promotion, one for consolidation and one to push on from there. I think the inference is that a similar approach will be taken with the manager. Failure at any of the signposted checkpoints will see a change.

Online Mister E

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7907 on: November 10, 2017, 09:25:14 AM »
It's the patterns beyond the league position that are important for me. 
This is the sentence that sums things up well. Almost regardless of the win-draw-loss cycle that the current manager achieves, the underlying theme is of a squad not operating to a credible strategy, with flexible tactics and game-management to keep opposition managers guessing. If you believe the disparaging quote on here from Scott Hogan that training consists of bibs and cones ("pullovers for goalposts"), I despair ...
... not of ever not being promoted, but of actually being promoted. With this squad and this manager we would get humiliated. And to those who say that Tony will simply buy a new squad, I don't see how that will work. The promoted sides that thrive tend to build on an already-existing core of players who play to a discernible style and ethos and who have a togetherness built on belief of the manager's capabilities.
I don't get that vibe with Villa right now.

I think a number of players will need to be replaced but by no means all of them. If you recall Wyness talked of building three teams; one for promotion, one for consolidation and one to push on from there. I think the inference is that a similar approach will be taken with the manager. Failure at any of the signposted checkpoints will see a change.
Yes, I remember Wyness' quote. My challenge to it is: how much of a squad might you need to change to achieve the three different states? At the moment, I don't see a core that would achieve stability in the Premier L., which means almost completely dismantling it once promotion were won. The very process of which might well result in relegation.
We need a manager now with the capability to get promotion, develop the squad and its capabilities to survive once promoted and be adaptable tactically. We don't have it.

Online Chris Smith

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7908 on: November 10, 2017, 09:43:07 AM »
It's the patterns beyond the league position that are important for me. 
This is the sentence that sums things up well. Almost regardless of the win-draw-loss cycle that the current manager achieves, the underlying theme is of a squad not operating to a credible strategy, with flexible tactics and game-management to keep opposition managers guessing. If you believe the disparaging quote on here from Scott Hogan that training consists of bibs and cones ("pullovers for goalposts"), I despair ...
... not of ever not being promoted, but of actually being promoted. With this squad and this manager we would get humiliated. And to those who say that Tony will simply buy a new squad, I don't see how that will work. The promoted sides that thrive tend to build on an already-existing core of players who play to a discernible style and ethos and who have a togetherness built on belief of the manager's capabilities.
I don't get that vibe with Villa right now.

I think a number of players will need to be replaced but by no means all of them. If you recall Wyness talked of building three teams; one for promotion, one for consolidation and one to push on from there. I think the inference is that a similar approach will be taken with the manager. Failure at any of the signposted checkpoints will see a change.
Yes, I remember Wyness' quote. My challenge to it is: how much of a squad might you need to change to achieve the three different states? At the moment, I don't see a core that would achieve stability in the Premier L., which means almost completely dismantling it once promotion were won. The very process of which might well result in relegation.
We need a manager now with the capability to get promotion, develop the squad and its capabilities to survive once promoted and be adaptable tactically. We don't have it.

I reckon 6 additions would do it to start with and some of the current starters becoming squad players with others leaving. To my mind that is half the defence, a couple of midfield additions and another striker/forward plus the keeper situation sorted.

Online pbavfckuwait

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7909 on: November 10, 2017, 10:48:15 AM »
A number of points to make.
(1) A number of us on here wanted Bruce to be given the bullet at the end of last season, mainly due to our perception of him not having what seemed to be a grasp of modern day football and what is required to progress a team. He has made some progress on position, but nothing to show he embraces the modern day ethos of making Aston Villa a future force.
(2) He has allowed an  unbalance within the squad, that sees one suspension have a right sided answer to a left sided problem. We will see if this is highlighted even further over the next couple of months, with Mr. Terry missing, his options do not make me over optimistic that it will not cause us major problems, as he will not do what maybe his best answer to this, put Sulli in from the under 23's, he will go for one of his other options and to me not the best one, De Laet , but Elphick or Jeddi. ( I do not blame Bruce for the sale of Baker, Baker wanted regular first team and Bruce could not offer him that).
(3) Even thou the squad is I believe unbalanced, he does not help his case with the playing of his senior players, Snodgrass, Whelan, if Gabby was fit he would be at least on the bench and if fit would we have seen the arrival of Davis, I doubt it, playing them when they are not on form.
(4) Results have been better than performances, that much I think the most fervent supporter of Bruce would agree, he has us there and there abouts and I can see why some on here, then state that the Bruce outers see one bad result and we all start screaming.

I hate seeing Aston Villa give away a corner never mind a result, I would love to see Steve Bruce go from now to the end of the season not dropping a point, would I be eating humble pie then, the answer is No, purely and simply because what ever Bruce does, unless he morphs into Pep over night, his football ethos is that of the school ground bully, until he get outside the school gate and the kid from the school down the road comes and gives him a lesson. (Cardiff, Wolves, Sheff Wednesday)

Online pbavfckuwait

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7910 on: November 10, 2017, 10:51:16 AM »
 Above post,Elphick, Jeddi , how could I have forgotten Samba, quite easily with a bit of luck.

Online Chris Smith

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7911 on: November 10, 2017, 11:34:20 AM »
All of the issues about cover for injuries etc apply equally to every team in the division. Do we honestly think that they have top class replacements who will slot seemlessly in to the side? The experience of last season shows us that the longer this season goes on the more of a grind it becomes with little recovery time between games. From January onwards is when the promotion is won or lost, not September and October.

Online Sexual Ealing

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7912 on: November 10, 2017, 11:41:55 AM »
Are there more points for a win in February?

Offline cdbullyweefan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7913 on: November 10, 2017, 12:19:25 PM »
All of the issues about cover for injuries etc apply equally to every team in the division. Do we honestly think that they have top class replacements who will slot seemlessly in to the side? The experience of last season shows us that the longer this season goes on the more of a grind it becomes with little recovery time between games. From January onwards is when the promotion is won or lost, not September and October.

So why did we sack Di Matteo, then?

Offline Clark W Griswold

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7914 on: November 10, 2017, 12:36:06 PM »
I think Wyness's quote about the 3 teams was idiotic. It's hardly giving a good message to the current squad, get us promoted and you'll be moved on as you'll not be deemed good enough for Aston Villa any more. It sounds like a continued progression of 'do well for the club and we'll just end up replacing you because we'll be able to attract better players.'

Offline Clampy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7915 on: November 10, 2017, 12:45:58 PM »
Are there more points for a win in February?

Are there more in November?

Online Sexual Ealing

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7916 on: November 10, 2017, 01:17:27 PM »
Are there more points for a win in February?

Are there more in November?

Have a bit of a think about the post I was replying to.

Offline Clampy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7917 on: November 10, 2017, 01:24:08 PM »
Are there more points for a win in February?

Are there more in November?

Have a bit of a think about the post I was replying to.

He's right though.

Online Sexual Ealing

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7918 on: November 10, 2017, 01:28:51 PM »
Are there more points for a win in February?

Are there more in November?

Have a bit of a think about the post I was replying to.

He's right though.

Now have a bit of a think about what you've just written.

Offline Clampy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7919 on: November 10, 2017, 01:31:41 PM »
Are there more points for a win in February?

Are there more in November?

Have a bit of a think about the post I was replying to.

He's right though.

Now have a bit of a think about what you've just written.

I have. He's basically saying the season doesn't end in November. Like I said earlier, Sheff Utd are 2nd at the moment. It's not to say they'll still be there in May.