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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 327778 times)

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7800 on: November 06, 2017, 08:39:21 PM »
David Moyes? The mind boggles as to how anybody thinks he’d be the answer. Unless the question is “what manager would guarantee us relegation?”

There were still plenty of people wanting him last summer before RDM and again before we signed Bruce, no amount of failure will overshadow what he did at Everton in some eyes.

That said he's the exact sort of lazy appointment I'd have expected if we had got rid of Bruce in the summer so anything that takes people like him off the market is good news.

I like Moyes. And in this day and age of footballers with over inflated ego's and bad attitudes then Moyes makes more sense to me. He did an amazing job for Everton. Difficult situation to be going into Man U after Ferguson and Sunderland was a complete shit show

And you're exactly the sort of person I mean.  He did a decent job at Everton but not as good has been made out.  At Man U even accounting for it being a poisoned chalice he made a complete mess of it.  Then he went to Spain and got found out completely for the limited tactician he is.  He was awful at Sunderland but the mitigating factors there are compelling however he's failed 3 times in a row, he should be nowhere near a job like West Ham (or us) but the old boys club all stand behind one of their own.

Moyes does best on a tight budget.  With a bit of luck he will get through a ton of the porno dwarves' money.

Regardless of what budget he gets he wastes most of it and only really gets value when he buys 'young and hungry'.  Look at his signings for Everton, he managed to get some big sums to spend (through sales) and most of it was wasted on shit.

Offline cdward

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7801 on: November 06, 2017, 08:50:39 PM »
As said, the only way he is going is if he has the sort of run that takes us down the table and then it would be a panick move.
We are stuck with him and at best the lottery of the play offs.
At least some people are more than happy with that.

1/ Bollocks
2/ Bollocks and bollocks
3/ In my considered opinion that's bollocks too.

I, on the othet hand, happen to agree with points one and two made by CL.  It would take a terrible run of form for him to be sacked any time soon and like CL I think we could be looking at the plays offs at best now.  I think it will take a fairly long run of wins to get us up in automatic mix and then another to see us over the line.  As for point 3, as long as we are in the play off mix then he deserves to be in the job.
7 points off 2nd (automatic promotion place) with 32 games to play.
We play Sheff Utd twice, Middlesbrough and Bristol City all before the end of January, who are all between us and 2nd place.

Offline ciggiesnbeer

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7802 on: November 06, 2017, 08:51:59 PM »
Managers can be good for some of their career then lose it and become terrible for others.

Moyes lost it nearly five years ago and has been consistently awful since then.

Maybe he can become a decent manager again, but all evidence points the opposite direction.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7803 on: November 06, 2017, 09:08:20 PM »
As said, the only way he is going is if he has the sort of run that takes us down the table and then it would be a panick move.
We are stuck with him and at best the lottery of the play offs.
At least some people are more than happy with that.

1/ Bollocks
2/ Bollocks and bollocks
3/ In my considered opinion that's bollocks too.

I, on the othet hand, happen to agree with points one and two made by CL.  It would take a terrible run of form for him to be sacked any time soon and like CL I think we could be looking at the plays offs at best now.  I think it will take a fairly long run of wins to get us up in automatic mix and then another to see us over the line.  As for point 3, as long as we are in the play off mix then he deserves to be in the job.
7 points off 2nd (automatic promotion place) with 32 games to play.
We play Sheff Utd twice, Middlesbrough and Bristol City all before the end of January, who are all between us and 2nd place.


7 points behind teams that are averaging 2 points per game so if they hold their form together we need 7 wins in a row just to catch up.  Given how we approach teams like those you've named there's every chance that we're looking at 3-5 points from those 4 games, that's what we do against the sides near the top of the table.

On paper it looks like a simple enough gap to cross but it's anything but that.  After 5 games we were 7 points short of the top 2, after 11 more games where most people think the results have been good we're still 7 points short so all we've really done is kept pace, which has been enough to get us into the play off spots but we need another step up in performances to bridge the next gap and it just doesn't look like happening because every time we show promising signs we fuck it up within a couple of games and go backwards again.

Offline TonyD

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7804 on: November 06, 2017, 10:19:28 PM »
Every manager is a gamble on promotion

But I feel under Bruce it’s about 4.1.  Or in other terms for us - shit or bust.

Offline Simon Page

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7805 on: November 07, 2017, 07:58:59 AM »
David Moyes? The mind boggles as to how anybody thinks he’d be the answer. Unless the question is “what manager would guarantee us relegation?”

There were still plenty of people wanting him last summer before RDM and again before we signed Bruce, no amount of failure will overshadow what he did at Everton in some eyes.

Yeah, I was one of them. His Everton spell is as much rewritten by his detractors as his post-Everton efforts are by his admirers. He did a fine job at Everton. They were treading water ahead of eventual relegation when he got there. Stabilised them and got them consistently ahead of everyone bar the enormous spenders. Fuck knows whether what happened at Old Trafford was him or the loss of Ferguson, but they haven't ever looked like regaining their pomp. This decade's equivalent of Liverpool in the 90s.

I wanted him not because I'd rewritten his Everton exploits into world domination, but because he seemed our type of manager. We do well when we have a strong, slightly irritating control freak at the helm and needed someone to do for us what Moyes did for Everton. Now, contrary to ignoring his subsequent failures, I don't want him at Villa Park. I think he's shown himself to have a higher regard for himself than his recent record merits and we'd be better served with someone desperate to succeed rather than one who thinks he already has.

In other words, I was either wrong in 2016 or I am now. No ignoring failure required.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7806 on: November 07, 2017, 09:05:50 AM »
David Moyes? The mind boggles as to how anybody thinks he’d be the answer. Unless the question is “what manager would guarantee us relegation?”

There were still plenty of people wanting him last summer before RDM and again before we signed Bruce, no amount of failure will overshadow what he did at Everton in some eyes.

Yeah, I was one of them. His Everton spell is as much rewritten by his detractors as his post-Everton efforts are by his admirers. He did a fine job at Everton. They were treading water ahead of eventual relegation when he got there. Stabilised them and got them consistently ahead of everyone bar the enormous spenders. Fuck knows whether what happened at Old Trafford was him or the loss of Ferguson, but they haven't ever looked like regaining their pomp. This decade's equivalent of Liverpool in the 90s.

I wanted him not because I'd rewritten his Everton exploits into world domination, but because he seemed our type of manager. We do well when we have a strong, slightly irritating control freak at the helm and needed someone to do for us what Moyes did for Everton. Now, contrary to ignoring his subsequent failures, I don't want him at Villa Park. I think he's shown himself to have a higher regard for himself than his recent record merits and we'd be better served with someone desperate to succeed rather than one who thinks he already has.

In other words, I was either wrong in 2016 or I am now. No ignoring failure required.

Not rewritten, his first 2-3 seasons were excellent but from there he just couldn't find a way to take the next step.  His time there was a lot like mon for us.

That said, you're not the person I was talking about, i meant the people who were voting for him on the poll a couple of months ago when Bruce looked close to fucked.

Offline The Edge

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7807 on: November 07, 2017, 09:14:37 AM »
David Moyes? The mind boggles as to how anybody thinks he’d be the answer. Unless the question is “what manager would guarantee us relegation?”

There were still plenty of people wanting him last summer before RDM and again before we signed Bruce, no amount of failure will overshadow what he did at Everton in some eyes.

Yeah, I was one of them. His Everton spell is as much rewritten by his detractors as his post-Everton efforts are by his admirers. He did a fine job at Everton. They were treading water ahead of eventual relegation when he got there. Stabilised them and got them consistently ahead of everyone bar the enormous spenders. Fuck knows whether what happened at Old Trafford was him or the loss of Ferguson, but they haven't ever looked like regaining their pomp. This decade's equivalent of Liverpool in the 90s.

I wanted him not because I'd rewritten his Everton exploits into world domination, but because he seemed our type of manager. We do well when we have a strong, slightly irritating control freak at the helm and needed someone to do for us what Moyes did for Everton. Now, contrary to ignoring his subsequent failures, I don't want him at Villa Park. I think he's shown himself to have a higher regard for himself than his recent record merits and we'd be better served with someone desperate to succeed rather than one who thinks he already has.

In other words, I was either wrong in 2016 or I am now. No ignoring failure required.

Not rewritten, his first 2-3 seasons were excellent but from there he just couldn't find a way to take the next step.  His time there was a lot like mon for us.

That said, you're not the person I was talking about, i meant the people who were voting for him on the poll a couple of months ago when Bruce looked close to fucked.
I think Bruce will be judged at the end of the season. If we get promoted by any means possible he'll get a shot at the Prem. If we don't get promoted this season he's toast. I've given up commenting on our style of play/lack of tactical awareness  because we blow hot and cold so it's pointless.

Offline Drummond

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7808 on: November 07, 2017, 09:22:02 AM »
As said, the only way he is going is if he has the sort of run that takes us down the table and then it would be a panick move.
We are stuck with him and at best the lottery of the play offs.
At least some people are more than happy with that.

1/ Bollocks
2/ Bollocks and bollocks
3/ In my considered opinion that's bollocks too.

You’re quite the pleasant little ray of sunshine lately aren’t you?

Thanks for spotting it Risso, yes, I'm nice and warm here. You seem perky too.

Offline boozey182

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7809 on: November 07, 2017, 09:40:45 AM »
David Moyes? The mind boggles as to how anybody thinks he’d be the answer. Unless the question is “what manager would guarantee us relegation?”

There were still plenty of people wanting him last summer before RDM and again before we signed Bruce, no amount of failure will overshadow what he did at Everton in some eyes.

Yeah, I was one of them. His Everton spell is as much rewritten by his detractors as his post-Everton efforts are by his admirers. He did a fine job at Everton. They were treading water ahead of eventual relegation when he got there. Stabilised them and got them consistently ahead of everyone bar the enormous spenders. Fuck knows whether what happened at Old Trafford was him or the loss of Ferguson, but they haven't ever looked like regaining their pomp. This decade's equivalent of Liverpool in the 90s.

I wanted him not because I'd rewritten his Everton exploits into world domination, but because he seemed our type of manager. We do well when we have a strong, slightly irritating control freak at the helm and needed someone to do for us what Moyes did for Everton. Now, contrary to ignoring his subsequent failures, I don't want him at Villa Park. I think he's shown himself to have a higher regard for himself than his recent record merits and we'd be better served with someone desperate to succeed rather than one who thinks he already has.

In other words, I was either wrong in 2016 or I am now. No ignoring failure required.

Not rewritten, his first 2-3 seasons were excellent but from there he just couldn't find a way to take the next step.  His time there was a lot like mon for us.

That said, you're not the person I was talking about, i meant the people who were voting for him on the poll a couple of months ago when Bruce looked close to fucked.
I think Bruce will be judged at the end of the season. If we get promoted by any means possible he'll get a shot at the Prem. If we don't get promoted this season he's toast. I've given up commenting on our style of play/lack of tactical awareness  because we blow hot and cold so it's pointless.

I'm not sure if he will get a chance in the Prem, even if he does get us promoted. The board have spoken about a desperate need to get back up (which is understandable I guess) and then, as is my understanding, at that point we'll start seriously building for the future. I can't see them wanting to shape the club in Bruce's image... The job would become so different that it is almost a different profession.

When you're starting a brave new world, you don't let the pilot lay down the groundwork just because he got you there.

This all seems a very long way away yet, mind.

Offline tomd2103

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7810 on: November 07, 2017, 10:04:00 AM »
David Moyes? The mind boggles as to how anybody thinks he’d be the answer. Unless the question is “what manager would guarantee us relegation?”

There were still plenty of people wanting him last summer before RDM and again before we signed Bruce, no amount of failure will overshadow what he did at Everton in some eyes.

Yeah, I was one of them. His Everton spell is as much rewritten by his detractors as his post-Everton efforts are by his admirers. He did a fine job at Everton. They were treading water ahead of eventual relegation when he got there. Stabilised them and got them consistently ahead of everyone bar the enormous spenders. Fuck knows whether what happened at Old Trafford was him or the loss of Ferguson, but they haven't ever looked like regaining their pomp. This decade's equivalent of Liverpool in the 90s.

I wanted him not because I'd rewritten his Everton exploits into world domination, but because he seemed our type of manager. We do well when we have a strong, slightly irritating control freak at the helm and needed someone to do for us what Moyes did for Everton. Now, contrary to ignoring his subsequent failures, I don't want him at Villa Park. I think he's shown himself to have a higher regard for himself than his recent record merits and we'd be better served with someone desperate to succeed rather than one who thinks he already has.

In other words, I was either wrong in 2016 or I am now. No ignoring failure required.

Not rewritten, his first 2-3 seasons were excellent but from there he just couldn't find a way to take the next step.  His time there was a lot like mon for us.

That said, you're not the person I was talking about, i meant the people who were voting for him on the poll a couple of months ago when Bruce looked close to fucked.
I think Bruce will be judged at the end of the season. If we get promoted by any means possible he'll get a shot at the Prem. If we don't get promoted this season he's toast. I've given up commenting on our style of play/lack of tactical awareness  because we blow hot and cold so it's pointless.

Yep, that sums it up perfectly.  All we can do is get behind the team and see how the next couple of months unfold.  Looking at our fixtures, we should have a good idea of where we are by the time Sheffield United arrive in B6 on 23rd December.   

Offline villa `cross the mersey

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7811 on: November 07, 2017, 10:04:29 AM »
As said, the only way he is going is if he has the sort of run that takes us down the table and then it would be a panick move.
We are stuck with him and at best the lottery of the play offs.
At least some people are more than happy with that.

1/ Bollocks
2/ Bollocks and bollocks
3/ In my considered opinion that's bollocks too.

Blimey you really have become the miserable Yorkshire stereotype haven't you ? :)

Hope you are well - regards Clive

Offline Drummond

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7812 on: November 07, 2017, 10:18:43 AM »
As said, the only way he is going is if he has the sort of run that takes us down the table and then it would be a panick move.
We are stuck with him and at best the lottery of the play offs.
At least some people are more than happy with that.

1/ Bollocks
2/ Bollocks and bollocks
3/ In my considered opinion that's bollocks too.

Blimey you really have become the miserable Yorkshire stereotype haven't you ? :)

Hope you are well - regards Clive

With Scottish Blood in me too.

Seems I need to explain.

1/ Why would sacking a manager after a bad run be a panic move, especially given the original poster wants him gone anyway. It seems like whatever happens the club will be criticised.
2/ We aren't stuck with him if 1/ comes to pass, and nobody has any idea if we're stuck with the playoffs (though I do think it is a possibility)
3/ I'm not sure anyone has said that they are 'more than happy with that'.

Cheers, El Miserablist

Offline john e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7813 on: November 07, 2017, 11:48:22 AM »
David Moyes? The mind boggles as to how anybody thinks he’d be the answer. Unless the question is “what manager would guarantee us relegation?”

getting rid of a failing foreign manager and making an easy appointment of a out of work old fashioned British dinosaur who’s Football is as dull as ditch water but has loads ‘mates’ saying how solid he will be to come and drive the club forward

I know how they feel

Offline olaftab

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7814 on: November 07, 2017, 02:49:18 PM »
As said, the only way he is going is if he has the sort of run that takes us down the table and then it would be a panick move.
We are stuck with him and at best the lottery of the play offs.
At least some people are more than happy with that.

1/ Bollocks
2/ Bollocks and bollocks
3/ In my considered opinion that's bollocks too.
So 1 and 2 are not your considered opinion?