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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 324707 times)

Offline Simon Page

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7770 on: November 06, 2017, 11:25:50 AM »
itís all part of the general dumbing down of fans expectations
some people buy into it and believe we canít do any better than Bruce

The problem now is we need, as close as possible, guaranteed better. We're hovering around the play-offs and could conceivably go up this season with Bruce in charge. We're not trying to arrest a decline, in which case you're more likely to chance it. No-one at the club will be writing this season off so I reckon any thought of Bruce going without a serious downturn in form is futile, regardless of where fan views have dumbed or climbed to.

Online SoccerHQ

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7771 on: November 06, 2017, 11:47:18 AM »
Only way he's getting sacked now is if we have a similar run like last January-March.

That would see us fall well out of the top 6 and a change would obviously have to take place.

I don't see it happening and we should remain around where we are.

Whether he can get us top 2 time will tell.

Offline john e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7772 on: November 06, 2017, 11:54:25 AM »
itís all part of the general dumbing down of fans expectations
some people buy into it and believe we canít do any better than Bruce

The problem now is we need, as close as possible, guaranteed better. We're hovering around the play-offs and could conceivably go up this season with Bruce in charge. We're not trying to arrest a decline, in which case you're more likely to chance it. No-one at the club will be writing this season off so I reckon any thought of Bruce going without a serious downturn in form is futile, regardless of where fan views have dumbed or climbed to.


 I don't disagree with any of that Simon

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7773 on: November 06, 2017, 11:54:55 AM »
I don't think it's a dumbing down, I think it's down to people really not knowing what is required to get automatic promotion.  you can see people talking about the good form of the last 12 games but it's actually 22 points from 12, that's actually slightly below what we will probably need, it works out as 85 points over a season and that's been enough for promotion 4 times in the last 20 years, 1 of which was Bruce getting Hull up a few years ago.  The playoffs is simpler, 70-75 points guarantees you a place most seasons and if we carry on as we are doing we should be somewhere around that.

From there the question you have to ask is whether, at the start of the season, you wanted automatic promotion or were happy with the play offs.  We're a third of the way through and can make clear judgements now, if you expected automatic promotion then we're under-performing but if you were happy with the playoffs then we're just about on target.

For me with the money we've spent and the pragmatic approach of "get promoted then worry about the long-term" then automatic promotion was the only suitable target, if we get 10 points away form that then I'd be looking at sacking him, even if we've in the playoffs, because that's a huge margin to be missing your target by.

Online Ad@m

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7774 on: November 06, 2017, 11:55:17 AM »
It's not a lot to different to people claiming Bruce has suddenly found the answer, after a victory against a very poor Preston side missing a big chunk of their best players.

As is usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle of the two extreme views.

I couldnt care less how poor Preston were. We beat them and got the points so it hardly matters.

I don't mean this in a 'better fan than yow' kind of way but do you actually go to the games?

I ask because all your posts defending Bruce tend to based on the simple statistics of results, with a theme which is normally something along the lines of "we win more than we lose".

Surely though, as a measure of both how well Bruce is doing in the job and how likely we are to go up, you have to look at the quality of the performances and not just the end result (ie any time we play a top 6 team we look distinctly second best)?  Or that when we do look like genuine promotion candidates (ie like the Preston game) it's against a team that's on a terrible run of form and is missing lots of key players?

Online SoccerHQ

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7775 on: November 06, 2017, 11:56:20 AM »
I don't think it's a dumbing down, I think it's down to people really not knowing what is required to get automatic promotion.  you can see people talking about the good form of the last 12 games but it's actually 22 points from 12, that's actually slightly below what we will probably need, it works out as 85 points over a season and that's been enough for promotion 4 times in the last 20 years, 1 of which was Bruce getting Hull up a few years ago.  The playoffs is simpler, 70-75 points guarantees you a place most seasons and if we carry on as we are doing we should be somewhere around that.

From there the question you have to ask is whether, at the start of the season, you wanted automatic promotion or were happy with the play offs.  We're a third of the way through and can make clear judgements now, if you expected automatic promotion then we're under-performing but if you were happy with the playoffs then we're just about on target.

For me with the money we've spent and the pragmatic approach of "get promoted then worry about the long-term" then automatic promotion was the only suitable target, if we get 10 points away form that then I'd be looking at sacking him, even if we've in the playoffs, because that's a huge margin to be missing your target by.

I actually think 85 points will be enough this season. No way in my mind Sheffield United are getting 90 + points this season and Cardiff lost a few times away in last month.

Wolves probably will.

Offline Clark W Griswold

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7776 on: November 06, 2017, 12:08:23 PM »
We can't sack him whilst in the play off places. We would look pretty daft initially and then look like proper dickheads if someone comes in and we drop below 6th.
Overall this season, considering he's had some bad luck with injuries to key players he's not done badly results wise although the football has largely been quite poor considering the level of player we supposedly have for this level, even in reserve. I agree with the comments regarding the level of performance he's getting from a lot of these players being substandard and that we do still lack some balance in the squad. Should be better considering the money he's had.
If losing Terry and not having a few of the others fully fit over the next 10 weeks means that we fall away badly, I think he should go. If he holds it together and we stay top 6 until the key players come back I think he'll have done really well, so at this point in time, for me, we're back to the 'jury's out' mindset.

Offline berneboy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7777 on: November 06, 2017, 12:14:36 PM »
Personally I would love to see Mr Bruce leave but it's no good without a very good manager immediately available. He keeps making the point about too many changes being part of our problem and I believe he is correct so we on the horns of a dilemma. Sadly it looks like we have to keep him until it is clear that we are not mounting a serious promotion push.

.. so I suppose that means I hope he stays. Shucks.

Offline PeterWithe

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7778 on: November 06, 2017, 12:18:34 PM »
If you consider the resources available to Bruce and then the XI and formation that we finished the Weds game with, is it any wonder the performances are so haphazard when the game plan seems to be to hope for the best.


Online olaftab

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7779 on: November 06, 2017, 12:30:53 PM »
It's not a lot to different to people claiming Bruce has suddenly found the answer, after a victory against a very poor Preston side missing a big chunk of their best players.

As is usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle of the two extreme views.

I couldnt care less how poor Preston were. We beat them and got the points so it hardly matters.
Yes we beat them. A few days after a mediocre team absolutely whipped us at home even if the final score was 1-2.

Online Clampy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7780 on: November 06, 2017, 12:51:02 PM »
It's not a lot to different to people claiming Bruce has suddenly found the answer, after a victory against a very poor Preston side missing a big chunk of their best players.

As is usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle of the two extreme views.

I couldnt care less how poor Preston were. We beat them and got the points so it hardly matters.
Yes we beat them. A few days after a mediocre team absolutely whipped us at home even if the final score was 1-2.

So were not absolutely whipped then.

Offline Clark W Griswold

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7781 on: November 06, 2017, 12:51:34 PM »
Personally I would love to see Mr Bruce leave but it's no good without a very good manager immediately available. He keeps making the point about too many changes being part of our problem and I believe he is correct so we on the horns of a dilemma. Sadly it looks like we have to keep him until it is clear that we are not mounting a serious promotion push.

.. so I suppose that means I hope he stays. Shucks.

I'd give him until the last match of this calendar year. If we've lost touch he'll need to go. Seems a bit daft to keep giving these deadlines but with our need for immediate dividends and Bruce's not convincing but not terrible record (plus the way it's seems to swing from one extreme to the other) I think it needs to be monitored like that. There is also the point of not being too hasty to change after the last few years but that's only true to a point.

Offline mr underhill

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7782 on: November 06, 2017, 02:22:43 PM »
any chance he might go to West Ham?

Offline XXVilla

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7783 on: November 06, 2017, 03:24:43 PM »
Weíve got him for the rest on the season. Like it or not.

Online olaftab

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7784 on: November 06, 2017, 03:48:06 PM »
So were not absolutely whipped then.
😘