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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 324953 times)

Online Toronto Villa

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7635 on: November 03, 2017, 12:03:18 PM »
I like mostly like Bruce, but I'm not overly convinced by him long term, and was particularly frustrated by the performance at Wolves.  But results over the last couple of months (Wolves aside) have been great and he has to be given credit for that.  Saying we're wining now 'despite' of Bruce, but when in a bad run it's been down to his tactics etc is bollox. 


Our poorest performances have been when we set up not to lose rather than get on the front foot.


I'm not sure about that. I think the games we've lost, we've deserved to and been beaten by the better sides, not because we've tried not to lose.

I dont agree with that Clampy. I said in the pre match thread for Preston that it would come down to how Bruce approached the game. If he played to draw wed lose or not win, if he came out trying to win we would. In the games we have come out of the traps with a positive attitude weve looked good and generally have positive results. In games like Wolves or Blues weve come away with nothing or were lucky to get something as in Blues. We have the guns now to dominate this division. Ill be very interested to see how Bruce takes to playing Leeds or Sheff United or even this weekend. Play to win we should given our squad versus pretty much everyone else.

Online paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7636 on: November 03, 2017, 01:17:21 PM »
In fairness that's little different to Kane getting a chance at Spurs when they had an injury crisis upfront which changed history. Pochettino has admitted him breaking into the team probably kept him in a job.

Rashford also came through at Man. United when they were short of strikers.

SB did play him in the last game v Brighton so clearly he thought he was one for the future but was probably reluctant to throw him straight him given he was playing non league the previous year.

He's not the first or last manager who would play experience ahead of youth especially as the experienced strikers cost 20m between them.

Not just Davis though is it.

On the opening day against Hull Elmo played on the right wing, Hourihane was on the bench and Davis and Adomah weren't selected in the 18.

Injuries forced his hand with Adomah and Davis, Poor Form saw Lansbury drop out for Hourihane and poor form from Hutton and the totally unexpected availability of Snodgrass led to Elmo moving to full back (where I'd assumed he'd been signed for all along).

The approach, for me, has been to get as many good, experienced players as he could and just throw them at it until something worked.  I won't try to deny that he's found a pattern which is currently working but I think there's been a huge amount of luck in him finding the team he's now using, even Hutton at left back was more luck than judgement.

If there was more a plan than that I don't see how his signings fit into it, What role did he see for Hogan or Bjarnason given how we play?  Did he sign Elmo as a target man right winger or a right back, all evidence suggests it was the former.  We've been told that Grealish as a 10 was core to his thinking in pre-season and yet he barely played him there and when he got injured instead of putting a creator, like Hourihane or o'Hare, in there he threw Onomah in there to add some legs.  The one time he did let Hourihane have that role was Norwich and he immediately changed it and pushed him deeper, why do that if it was the plan and he's just scored a hattrick?  The start of the season was far too muddled for me and that's why there's a fair element of luck in how the last 10 games have gone.

All that said now he's found something I hope he realises that he can't just flog it until it stops working and then go through the whole muddle again, this form has to stick through to Christmas now if we want to get into the top 2.

Online Dave P

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7637 on: November 03, 2017, 01:29:25 PM »
Can't quite agree with you there paul_e.

To a man, we thought Thor would play LB when Taylor was suspended.  Bruce put Hutton there and he has been a revelation. 

The poor start was addressed with Hourihane & Adomah coming in.  If his plan was for Lansbury, Hogan and Bjarnason to be focal points, then I'm glad he has reacted with these changes to make us batter as a team.  Cant say that's lucky, just good management surely?  It's easy to blame him for the poor start of course but you equally have to praise him for the recovery.

Online paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7638 on: November 03, 2017, 01:41:24 PM »
Can't quite agree with you there paul_e.

To a man, we thought Thor would play LB when Taylor was suspended.  Bruce put Hutton there and he has been a revelation. 

The poor start was addressed with Hourihane & Adomah coming in.  If his plan was for Lansbury, Hogan and Bjarnason to be focal points, then I'm glad he has reacted with these changes to make us batter as a team.  Cant say that's lucky, just good management surely?  It's easy to blame him for the poor start of course but you equally have to praise him for the recovery.


It's a bit of both, at least he showed he was willing to change things but so were RDM and Sherwood it's just they didn't find a pattern that worked quick enough to save themselves, Bruce did by a game or 2, look at this thread, and tony's tweets, from early September, he was quite clearly clinging on by his fingertips after Boro.  Since then he's got things on track but there was a clear element of luck that he was forced to make changes for Barnsley and those changes kept him in the job.

Offline in exile

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7639 on: November 03, 2017, 03:00:37 PM »

To a man, we thought Thor would play LB when Taylor was suspended...

Did we?
I know you're wrong

Offline passport1

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7640 on: November 03, 2017, 03:44:47 PM »
Given the season starts with the tranfer window open team selections can be to subject all manner of unknown factors. The bottom line is SB has, as the season has progressed, moulded a team together that works as a unit. I think most rational supporters wanted him in until at least Oct (I certainly did) . I am no admirer of his style of football but I can at least acknowledge that it is effective at this level.

Online Toronto Villa

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7641 on: November 03, 2017, 05:29:26 PM »
There has to be luck and bad luck in football management. But we should commend him where he capitalizes on good fortune which I think overall he has. Thats good management and the record now is more about proving he is learning and adapting. Sprinkle a bit of good fortune along the way and we will be fine the rest of the season.

Online Mister E

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7642 on: November 03, 2017, 05:41:49 PM »
i thought the game against Preston was a very good performance by the whole team ...
It was, other than the fact that we still struggled to retain possession; we still failed to punish a poor side. We have a long way to go to demonstrate real promotion credentials.
There are encouraging signs that both the manager and the players are 'getting it'.

Offline stuart445

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7643 on: November 03, 2017, 06:26:15 PM »
Not at all.  Steve Bruce got lucky. I voted to give him more time.  I would sooner have a lucky manager winning games that a good one getting us relegated.

Oh so he got lucky, so using you way of thinking when we lose he's just unlucky. Oh no wait no when we lose he's crap. Got to love that logic

Offline stuart445

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7644 on: November 03, 2017, 06:33:53 PM »
I too do not like Bruce but we are asserting ourselves regardless.  If we have to carry him kicking and screaming into the Premiership I can live with that.

Oh so now we are winning we are doing it not because of  Bruce but when we don't win it's all Bruce's fault?

Speechless

Yes, the mind boggles.

Not really. Davis wasn't even being considered for the bench until a striker crisis earlier in the season. We were playing like shit and the formations were all over the shop.

Credit where it is due on results but let's not pretend it was something he had planned all along because that is patently bollocks.

If he thought we would get the best out of the midfield playing a target man then he would have purchased one.

With Davis that is just the way it works sometimes and you have to give huge credit to Davis himself.  As you said he only got into the side because of a striker crisis but he grabbed that opportunity with both hands and has put himself into a position where he has become a vital member of the squad.

Offline stuart445

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7645 on: November 03, 2017, 06:45:01 PM »
I too do not like Bruce but we are asserting ourselves regardless.  If we have to carry him kicking and screaming into the Premiership I can live with that.

Oh so now we are winning we are doing it not because of  Bruce but when we don't win it's all Bruce's fault?

Speechless
I'll answer this with what I said above - not attributing blame; just saying it as I see it:
My take on his approach is that he will set the team up to win against opponents who appear to be there for the taking,  as per last night. Where he believes we face decent oppo he seems to assume a very defensive stance.
I disagree with this approach and it gives a clue to his unsuitability for managing in the top tier.
And,  I just don't like him. 

We are not in the top tier

Online Mister E

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7646 on: November 03, 2017, 07:19:23 PM »
I too do not like Bruce but we are asserting ourselves regardless.  If we have to carry him kicking and screaming into the Premiership I can live with that.

Oh so now we are winning we are doing it not because of  Bruce but when we don't win it's all Bruce's fault?

Speechless
I'll answer this with what I said above - not attributing blame; just saying it as I see it:
My take on his approach is that he will set the team up to win against opponents who appear to be there for the taking,  as per last night. Where he believes we face decent oppo he seems to assume a very defensive stance.
I disagree with this approach and it gives a clue to his unsuitability for managing in the top tier.
And,  I just don't like him. 

We are not in the top tier
You're right.
He has been and has failed. And if we do get promotion he will doubtless be found not to be right for us.
My original point was that although he can adopt his usual M.O. (i.e. being ultra defensive against teams he feels are 'good' (Bristol and Wolves away, for example) and more attacking against teams he feels are there for the taking (Barnsley and PNE, for example), he is probably missing the opportunity to secure more points and is failing to make use of the talent at his disposal.
Is all.

Online Chinchilla Bathhouse

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7647 on: November 03, 2017, 07:26:51 PM »
Not at all.  Steve Bruce got lucky. I voted to give him more time.  I would sooner have a lucky manager winning games that a good one getting us relegated.

Oh so he got lucky, so using you way of thinking when we lose he's just unlucky. Oh no wait no when we lose he's crap. Got to love that logic

When we've lost it's often been because he's picked the wrong players and the wrong approach to the game. I can barely think of a game we've lost under Bruce where I felt we were unlucky to lose. On those occasions I've usually felt he got exactly what he deserved for his negative approach. On the other hand there've been quite a lot of games we've won (and drawn) that I thought we were lucky to, that we made unnecessarily hard work of thanks to those same negative tactics. Not saying he is but it is perfectly possible to be crap all of the time but get lucky some of the time. I don't see anything illogical about that view. (Not that Brian said he was crap either).
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 07:58:25 PM by Chinchilla Bathhouse »

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7648 on: November 03, 2017, 08:37:12 PM »
Adomah was a regular last season. He was injured at the start and obviously needed time to get match sharp but was terrific v Boro and been our player of the season so far.

I didn't like AEM playing at right midfield either and criticized SB for it. Would be really disappointed if he's placed back there tomorrow.

Don't understand how Hogan is supposed to fit into the style of play either so I agree on that one. As I suspected at the time I just think we saw he was scoring loads at championship level and just assumed he'd fit in and do the same here, much like McCormack infact.

Online ChicagoLion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7649 on: November 04, 2017, 04:57:53 PM »
This is the problem with Bruce, just when you think the penny has dropped you get this result.
So why
Have a midfield 2 of Whelan and Hourihane
Start Snodgrass who he knew was not fit
Start Hogan.

So 7 points out of the last 15, no where near automatic promotion form.