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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 317040 times)

Online Chris Smith

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7515 on: October 31, 2017, 12:59:02 PM »
Perhaps Hogan should take a leaf out of Adomahís book, left out but when given his opportunity took it and played his way into being a regular starter without us having to change the whole system to accommodate him.

Offline The Edge

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7516 on: October 31, 2017, 01:06:13 PM »
Perhaps Hogan should take a leaf out of Adomahís book, left out but when given his opportunity took it and played his way into being a regular starter without us having to change the whole system to accommodate him.
Someone on here described watching Hogan run for the ball as "like watching Tyrion Lannister running into battle."  Every time I watch him I can't get that image out of my head!

Online Dave

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7517 on: October 31, 2017, 01:36:17 PM »
Perhaps Hogan should take a leaf out of Adomahís book, left out but when given his opportunity took it and played his way into being a regular starter without us having to change the whole system to accommodate him.

Short of growing half a foot, is there much he can really adapt?

Online paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7518 on: October 31, 2017, 02:03:38 PM »
Perhaps Hogan should take a leaf out of Adomahís book, left out but when given his opportunity took it and played his way into being a regular starter without us having to change the whole system to accommodate him.

Short of growing half a foot, is there much he can really adapt?

I don't think even that would help but at least he might not look so completely lost if he could beat defenders in the air. Hogan is the sort of striker that can work if you've got 3-4 people breaking into the box around him and that's creating pockets of space which he can move into/between. I still come back to the fact that there are 2 possiblities for why we signed him:

1. Bruce lied, he'd never really watched him and he was signed purely because he had a good scoring record and appeared to be available at a price we'd be willing to meet.
2. Bruce told the truth and really did think he'd fit in, which shows an alarming lack of self-awareness of how his style of play differs from how Brentford were setup.

I firmly believe the first is the accurate one because it fits with how we, as a club, have approached signings ever since we were relegated.  I'd rather believe that the club has taken a stance of throwing good/highly valued players at the problem until it's solved than accept the idea that Bruce has absolutely no idea that he's a "secure the draw and hope for the win" manager.

Back to the "adapt and take his chance" idea, I can accept that for players like Adomah, Grealish, etc who Bruce inherited but it really can't be applied to his biggest signing as our manager.

Online Chris Smith

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7519 on: October 31, 2017, 03:14:15 PM »
Perhaps Hogan should take a leaf out of Adomahís book, left out but when given his opportunity took it and played his way into being a regular starter without us having to change the whole system to accommodate him.

Short of growing half a foot, is there much he can really adapt?

I think you caricature the way we play but in any case good players adapt and take the opportunities when given them.

Offline Risso

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7520 on: October 31, 2017, 03:21:54 PM »
Perhaps Hogan should take a leaf out of Adomahís book, left out but when given his opportunity took it and played his way into being a regular starter without us having to change the whole system to accommodate him.

Short of growing half a foot, is there much he can really adapt?

I think you caricature the way we play but in any case good players adapt and take the opportunities when given them.

Indeed, and in actual fact, looking at a Youtube montage of his 2016 goals for Brentford, a healthy percentage of them came from corners and crosses into the area.  They weren't all 40 yard laser accurate passes from whoever the Brentford incarnation of Pirlo was supposed to be.

Offline Chris Jameson

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7521 on: October 31, 2017, 03:22:41 PM »
He was all set to sign for West Ham until they decided against it, seeing some of Bilic's signings that should have served as a warning.

Offline ciggiesnbeer

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7522 on: October 31, 2017, 07:36:46 PM »
Perhaps Hogan should take a leaf out of Adomahís book, left out but when given his opportunity took it and played his way into being a regular starter without us having to change the whole system to accommodate him.

Short of growing half a foot, is there much he can really adapt?

I think you caricature the way we play but in any case good players adapt and take the opportunities when given them.

Indeed, and in actual fact, looking at a Youtube montage of his 2016 goals for Brentford, a healthy percentage of them came from corners and crosses into the area.  They weren't all 40 yard laser accurate passes from whoever the Brentford incarnation of Pirlo was supposed to be.

I think thats fair. Sure he has not been played in the system he likes but he needs to grab his next opportunity. I say that as a Hogan fan, I think he is going to be great for us. But its overdue coming for sure.

Offline QuintonVilla

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7523 on: October 31, 2017, 09:55:18 PM »
Bad night for us tonight. Brucey baby better pull it out the bag tomorrow.

Online levico

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7524 on: November 01, 2017, 04:45:57 PM »
Bad night for us tonight. Brucey baby better pull it out the bag tomorrow.

Yes Iím beginning to get the feeling that tonight is a knife edge game. If we donít win I could see the original purpose of this thread becoming relevant again.

Offline stuart445

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7525 on: November 01, 2017, 07:01:04 PM »
You have no divine right to anything. It was a derby and traditional we're poor here regardless of the result.

A point at the Sty isn't a bad result. We're in the top 6 and have some key games coming up.

Agree and on the face of it, a point is a decent result.  What concerns me a big though is that he doesn't seem to learn from mistakes.  Kodjia got bullied there last year and clearly didn't really fancy the physical challenge, so Bruce plays him up front on his own again this year.  We have been taken apart playing a two man midfield featuring Whelan in the tougher games this season and it looked like it was going to happen again until Jedinak came on and we went to a three in there. 

As someone I was standing next to in the pub commented, he still hasn't really found a really settled side or way of playing yet.
or the ability to change it when itís not working.

Wasn't working vs blues he changed it and ii worked

Offline stuart445

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7526 on: November 01, 2017, 07:09:29 PM »
If only there was a means of measuring who was the best. Say a league table of sorts?

Wouldn't work though, because it wouldn't factor in things like Blose' moral victories in games they lost or drew, or wins of ours that don't count because the opposition weren't in the top half of the table.

Also wouldn't factor in the bonus points you get for playing total football

Offline Rigadon

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7527 on: November 01, 2017, 07:31:27 PM »
Perhaps Hogan should take a leaf out of Adomahís book, left out but when given his opportunity took it and played his way into being a regular starter without us having to change the whole system to accommodate him.

Short of growing half a foot, is there much he can really adapt?

I don't think even that would help but at least he might not look so completely lost if he could beat defenders in the air. Hogan is the sort of striker that can work if you've got 3-4 people breaking into the box around him and that's creating pockets of space which he can move into/between. I still come back to the fact that there are 2 possiblities for why we signed him:

1. Bruce lied, he'd never really watched him and he was signed purely because he had a good scoring record and appeared to be available at a price we'd be willing to meet.
2. Bruce told the truth and really did think he'd fit in, which shows an alarming lack of self-awareness of how his style of play differs from how Brentford were setup.

I firmly believe the first is the accurate one because it fits with how we, as a club, have approached signings ever since we were relegated.  I'd rather believe that the club has taken a stance of throwing good/highly valued players at the problem until it's solved than accept the idea that Bruce has absolutely no idea that he's a "secure the draw and hope for the win" manager.

Back to the "adapt and take his chance" idea, I can accept that for players like Adomah, Grealish, etc who Bruce inherited but it really can't be applied to his biggest signing as our manager.

3.  He isn't mentally up to playing at a much much bigger club and his game has been affected as such.

Online paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7528 on: November 01, 2017, 07:56:47 PM »
Perhaps Hogan should take a leaf out of Adomahís book, left out but when given his opportunity took it and played his way into being a regular starter without us having to change the whole system to accommodate him.

Short of growing half a foot, is there much he can really adapt?

I don't think even that would help but at least he might not look so completely lost if he could beat defenders in the air. Hogan is the sort of striker that can work if you've got 3-4 people breaking into the box around him and that's creating pockets of space which he can move into/between. I still come back to the fact that there are 2 possiblities for why we signed him:

1. Bruce lied, he'd never really watched him and he was signed purely because he had a good scoring record and appeared to be available at a price we'd be willing to meet.
2. Bruce told the truth and really did think he'd fit in, which shows an alarming lack of self-awareness of how his style of play differs from how Brentford were setup.

I firmly believe the first is the accurate one because it fits with how we, as a club, have approached signings ever since we were relegated.  I'd rather believe that the club has taken a stance of throwing good/highly valued players at the problem until it's solved than accept the idea that Bruce has absolutely no idea that he's a "secure the draw and hope for the win" manager.

Back to the "adapt and take his chance" idea, I can accept that for players like Adomah, Grealish, etc who Bruce inherited but it really can't be applied to his biggest signing as our manager.

3.  He isn't mentally up to playing at a much much bigger club and his game has been affected as such.

That's a separate point really because one of the others would still be true and them putting him into the position they did was only going to increase the pressure.

Online ChicagoLion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #7529 on: November 01, 2017, 08:19:40 PM »
You have no divine right to anything. It was a derby and traditional we're poor here regardless of the result.

A point at the Sty isn't a bad result. We're in the top 6 and have some key games coming up.

Agree and on the face of it, a point is a decent result.  What concerns me a big though is that he doesn't seem to learn from mistakes.  Kodjia got bullied there last year and clearly didn't really fancy the physical challenge, so Bruce plays him up front on his own again this year.  We have been taken apart playing a two man midfield featuring Whelan in the tougher games this season and it looked like it was going to happen again until Jedinak came on and we went to a three in there. 

As someone I was standing next to in the pub commented, he still hasn't really found a really settled side or way of playing yet.
or the ability to change it when itís not working.

Wasn't working vs blues he changed it and ii worked
65 minutes