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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 327479 times)

Offline Clampy

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #735 on: February 22, 2017, 09:30:55 AM »
I thought you might pick up on that Clampy.

The debate with garyfouroaks is managerial record based.  Remi Garde has a proven track record, poo pooing French football aside.  He lost me for non football reasons.  The backbone I referred to was a personal failing not a football one.  He allowed the club to humiliate him and never fought back.  The "we" I refer to as kicking his arse out of Villa Park is the collective "we" not the Villa board.  A typical example of what he was on the receiving end of being the telephone insults posted by the Grealishes father and son.

As for the claim that managers are not superior to Bruce because their teams are playing better than us is like saying Christian Benteke was taller than Fabian Delph only in terms of his height.

Garde was dealt a harsh hand in truth, although from memory we were blocked in signing a keeper for some reason and he did try and bring in a striker who chose to go elsewhere (who's name for the life of me I can't remember, maybe other's can).

Offline mr underhill

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #736 on: February 22, 2017, 09:35:40 AM »
double swoop for De Bilde and Balaban

Offline Clampy

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #737 on: February 22, 2017, 09:38:09 AM »
Looking at the next three games, I think we should be aiming for at least 6 points.

Offline garyfouroaks

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #738 on: February 22, 2017, 09:48:25 AM »
But at what point should the decision be reached? By the time it's total disaster, it'll probably be too late to make an effective change. Without at least four points from the next three games, I think the writing's on the wall.
I think we are already beyond the point at which you can expect a change to make a difference- and remember that a change itself may make things worse.

Offline mattjpa

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #739 on: February 22, 2017, 10:03:30 AM »
But at what point should the decision be reached? By the time it's total disaster, it'll probably be too late to make an effective change. Without at least four points from the next three games, I think the writing's on the wall.
I think we are already beyond the point at which you can expect a change to make a difference- and remember that a change itself may make things worse.
To b fair Gary, the reason that the Bruce out campaign is gaining momentum is because things cant really get any worse. If we had amassed enough points to say we are safe, people wouldnt be as jumpy. If we were winning 1 in 3/4 games people wouldnt be so jumpy. Its the fact that we could still reasonably drop into the abyss combined with the fact we are getting beaten every game. There is always the hope of a new manager bounce, even if it was only 10points it would probably see us safe

Online cdbullyweefan

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #740 on: February 22, 2017, 10:03:46 AM »
But at what point should the decision be reached? By the time it's total disaster, it'll probably be too late to make an effective change. Without at least four points from the next three games, I think the writing's on the wall.
I think we are already beyond the point at which you can expect a change to make a difference- and remember that a change itself may make things worse.

We are a couple of weeks further into the season than Rotherham were last year when they appointed Warnock, he kept them up from a far worse position that we find ourselves in.

I suspect plenty of managers could make a difference, and I struggle to think of anyone who would "make things worse" than one point in eight games in this shit league.

Online Dave

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #741 on: February 22, 2017, 10:18:57 AM »
I thought you might pick up on that Clampy.

The debate with garyfouroaks is managerial record based.  Remi Garde has a proven track record, poo pooing French football aside.  He lost me for non football reasons.  The backbone I referred to was a personal failing not a football one.  He allowed the club to humiliate him and never fought back.  The "we" I refer to as kicking his arse out of Villa Park is the collective "we" not the Villa board.  A typical example of what he was on the receiving end of being the telephone insults posted by the Grealishes father and son.

As for the claim that managers are not superior to Bruce because their teams are playing better than us is like saying Christian Benteke was taller than Fabian Delph only in terms of his height.

Garde was dealt a harsh hand in truth, although from memory we were blocked in signing a keeper for some reason and he did try and bring in a striker who chose to go elsewhere (who's name for the life of me I can't remember, maybe other's can).

Seydou Doumbia, who went to Newcastle's bench instead.

Offline garyfouroaks

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #742 on: February 22, 2017, 01:36:54 PM »
To b fair Gary, the reason that the Bruce out campaign is gaining momentum is because things cant really get any worse. If we had amassed enough points to say we are safe, people wouldnt be as jumpy. If we were winning 1 in 3/4 games people wouldnt be so jumpy. Its the fact that we could still reasonably drop into the abyss combined with the fact we are getting beaten every game. There is always the hope of a new manager bounce, even if it was only 10points it would probably see us safe
I understand that, and share everyone's nervousness.

It amounts to a guess. Does Bruce have the experience to turn things around? Yes. Is he still up to it? That is a question asked of any manager constantly.

Some talk of a new manager bounce, sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't. One of the key factors in our fall has been managerial instability, mainly due to every manager, post MON, being flawed in my view, on appointment. The wrong men at the wrong time. I think that Bruce was the right appointment.

I simply do not accept the argument that we have nothing to lose by sacking him, and that things could not get worse. Post MON they have got worse with each successive appointment.

The leading contenders appear to be Rowett and Warburton. Both have merit. In the summer, if they are still available and we are relegated I could live with either. However my overwhelming sense is that at some point you have to draw a line in the sand and say that we are backing a decent manager, and that is what I believe we should do with Bruce.


Offline Reuben

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #743 on: February 22, 2017, 01:40:44 PM »
All this dithering means we've lost out on Mowbray!

Offline brian green

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #744 on: February 22, 2017, 01:52:33 PM »
You think all our previous managers were flawed but Bruce is not?

Online Dave

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #745 on: February 22, 2017, 01:59:08 PM »
The leading contenders appear to be Rowett and Warburton.

According to whom?

Online Ad@m

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #746 on: February 22, 2017, 02:00:39 PM »
Out of interest, when was the last time we had a new manager bounce?  Sherwood to an extent I suppose but before that - JG?

Online Dave

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #747 on: February 22, 2017, 02:03:34 PM »
Out of interest, when was the last time we had a new manager bounce?  Sherwood to an extent I suppose but before that - JG?

Surely the current guy?

Online Ad@m

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #748 on: February 22, 2017, 02:10:51 PM »
Out of interest, when was the last time we had a new manager bounce?  Sherwood to an extent I suppose but before that - JG?

Surely the current guy?

Was it a bounce?  We went from playing badly and drawing under RDM to playing badly and scraping a few wins under Bruce.  Our away form has been awful all season, regardless of manager, and our home performances didn't improve, we just ground the results out better.

I'm not sure I'd call that a bounce.

Online Dave

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #749 on: February 22, 2017, 02:18:24 PM »
Out of interest, when was the last time we had a new manager bounce?  Sherwood to an extent I suppose but before that - JG?

Surely the current guy?

Was it a bounce?  We went from playing badly and drawing under RDM to playing badly and scraping a few wins under Bruce.  Our away form has been awful all season, regardless of manager, and our home performances didn't improve, we just ground the results out better.

I'm not sure I'd call that a bounce.

It's debatable, sure. It definitely wasn't a long bounce, but then the point of it being a bounce is that it goes again pretty quickly.

 It's the first time in ages that we won a few games, so it felt like a bounce at the time.