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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 316107 times)

Offline themossman

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #720 on: February 22, 2017, 08:09:05 AM »
I can just about stretch to giving Bruce some more time, entirely on the grounds that Bruce is not that much worse than his predecessors. What I do draw the line at is the acceptance of relegation into the third division so that he can continue to lurch from game to game.  He is a football dinosaur brought in to do a job of work, like you might bring in Dynorod to clear your drains.  When you notice that the guy seems to have turned up without his drain rods you start to worry.

And instead, he's turned up with a load of wet-wipes and sanitary towels which he's jamming into the blocked drains.

I agree and I saw him in the same role - unglamorous hatchet man, here to sort out the mess and clear the way for a better manager, some day when a progressive cerebral garde type won't get eaten alive. But if we're talking about flirting with a spell in division 3 it doesn't add up anymore.

Offline garyfouroaks

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #721 on: February 22, 2017, 08:15:54 AM »

I agree and I saw him in the same role - unglamorous hatchet man, here to sort out the mess and clear the way for a better manager, some day when a progressive cerebral garde type won't get eaten alive. But if we're talking about flirting with a spell in division 3 it doesn't add up anymore.
Bruce has a good managerial record. Who are these "better" managers of whom you speak? Ever since MON we have ben sliding down the scale.

Online brian green

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #722 on: February 22, 2017, 08:16:24 AM »
We pulled the trigger on Sherwood, Garde and RDM after runs like Bruce is having.  He is surviving on the simple managerial compensation fatigue at the club.

Offline Ads

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #723 on: February 22, 2017, 08:18:50 AM »
None of those had any real experience in their past to suggest they'd got it right. For RDM his laziness and aloof manner did for him as well.

Bruce has got it right in this league on a regular basis. He was doing the same with us up to 22:00 28th December 2016. I'm still confident we will get things right and have a positive end to the season even if it's disappointment of a mid-table finish.

Online brian green

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #724 on: February 22, 2017, 08:26:21 AM »
Better managers than Steve Bruce?   Every manager in the Premiership and the manager's of the fifteen clubs above us in the second division for starters.  And that is just the English league.

Remi Garde's record at Lyon was stellar compared with Bruce.  We gave him nothing and kicked his arse out of the door.  Anybody who dared even hint that Sherwood, Garde or RDM should be allowed to drop into the third tier and keep his job would have been tarred and feathered.

Offline old man villa fan

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #725 on: February 22, 2017, 08:38:35 AM »
Defeated in the next 3 games would question where our next win was coming from.  Hence, relegation could be a distinct possibility.  If we could come out of the next 3 games with 4 points, I think that there would be far more optimism that we could get enough points in the remainder of games to see us safe.

I want the above to happen as obviously I do not want to see us relegated but also it puts off reviewing the managers position to the right time at the end of the season.  I am very worried about replacing the manager before the end of the season.

Offline garyfouroaks

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #726 on: February 22, 2017, 08:39:09 AM »
Better managers than Steve Bruce?   Every manager in the Premiership and the manager's of the fifteen clubs above us in the second division for starters.  And that is just the English league.

Remi Garde's record at Lyon was stellar compared with Bruce.  We gave him nothing and kicked his arse out of the door.  Anybody who dared even hint that Sherwood, Garde or RDM should be allowed to drop into the third tier and keep his job would have been tarred and feathered.
Would every manager in the Pl and the fifteen above us in the Champ do a better job than Bruce? I don't think so.

Remi Garde had no experience outside of France managing - it showed. Sherwood, Garde and RDM have all played a more significant part in where we are now than Bruce has.

Offline N'ZMAV

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #727 on: February 22, 2017, 08:39:47 AM »
disappointment of a mid-table finish.
I'll be giddy.

Online Clampy

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #728 on: February 22, 2017, 08:40:06 AM »
Better managers than Steve Bruce?   Every manager in the Premiership and the manager's of the fifteen clubs above us in the second division for starters.  And that is just the English league.

Remi Garde's record at Lyon was stellar compared with Bruce.  We gave him nothing and kicked his arse out of the door.  Anybody who dared even hint that Sherwood, Garde or RDM should be allowed to drop into the third tier and keep his job would have been tarred and feathered.

A little bit of revisonism there Brian. The other day you suggested Remi Garde lacked backbone, took the money and ran just like all the others. Today we kicked his arse out the door.

No-one is suggesting that we stick with Bruce if he takes us down. Some are saying they'd like to see what he could do with with a pre-season behind him and another window given his previous track record of getting teams up. Other people want him gone. All valid opinions at the end of the day.

Online brian green

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #729 on: February 22, 2017, 08:59:58 AM »
I thought you might pick up on that Clampy.

The debate with garyfouroaks is managerial record based.  Remi Garde has a proven track record, poo pooing French football aside.  He lost me for non football reasons.  The backbone I referred to was a personal failing not a football one.  He allowed the club to humiliate him and never fought back.  The "we" I refer to as kicking his arse out of Villa Park is the collective "we" not the Villa board.  A typical example of what he was on the receiving end of being the telephone insults posted by the Grealishes father and son.

As for the claim that managers are not superior to Bruce because their teams are playing better than us is like saying Christian Benteke was taller than Fabian Delph only in terms of his height.

Offline Boz

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #730 on: February 22, 2017, 09:01:43 AM »
Bruce's track record of getting teams up is the main reason for me why I'm happy to stick with him providing the season doesn't end in total disaster.

But at what point should the decision be reached? By the time it's total disaster, it'll probably be too late to make an effective change. Without at least four points from the next three games, I think the writing's on the wall.



Online andyh

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #731 on: February 22, 2017, 09:09:19 AM »
The biggest thing for me is that Bruce has had everything and more to get us into a better position than when he joined.
he had ready made reasons (excuses) as to why we were so bad (he inherited a disaster zone!), so that bought him time.
he had the backing of newly appointed board of football people and an incredibly enthusiastic owner.
he KNEW he would get massive financial backing within a few months of joining.
On top of all this, he had a fantastic 'new manager bounce', probably the best we have ever had.
The football wasn't pretty, but we were all forgiving of that because of the results.

The fact that he has been unable to capitalise on ANY of this and we are, without doubt, far worse than when he joined means you HAVE to question his ability to turn this round.

Its the same old cliché, but is the job/club too big for him ?       
   

Online Clampy

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #732 on: February 22, 2017, 09:23:23 AM »
Bruce's track record of getting teams up is the main reason for me why I'm happy to stick with him providing the season doesn't end in total disaster.

But at what point should the decision be reached? By the time it's total disaster, it'll probably be too late to make an effective change. Without at least four points from the next three games, I think the writing's on the wall.

I think asking for 4 points from the next three game is reasonable. If we beat or take points off the teams down there (Wigan, Rotherham, Bristol City, Burton etc) then that should be enough. Nowhere near good enough for the money we've spent though.

Offline mr underhill

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #733 on: February 22, 2017, 09:29:50 AM »
I personally wouldn't extend it beyond the next 2 home games, which apart from the recent aberration, is the only thing that's keeping us afloat. Lose both and he's history. He has to pick up six points between now and Tuesday night.

Online andyh

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #734 on: February 22, 2017, 09:30:44 AM »
Bruce's track record of getting teams up is the main reason for me why I'm happy to stick with him providing the season doesn't end in total disaster.

But at what point should the decision be reached? By the time it's total disaster, it'll probably be too late to make an effective change. Without at least four points from the next three games, I think the writing's on the wall.

I think asking for 4 points from the next three game is reasonable. If we beat or take points off the teams down there (Wigan, Rotherham, Bristol City, Burton etc) then that should be enough. Nowhere near good enough for the money we've spent though.
I know we have to look for positives, but flipping heck, our expectations are becoming so fucking low its enough to make you weep.