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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 317097 times)

Online tomd2103

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6690 on: September 22, 2017, 08:06:41 AM »
We can get back into the Premier League, be competitive and climb back towards the top but, I believe,  it can only be done taking small steps. It will take time. It will not work doing what we are now and that is throwing everything at getting promotion, without a thought for the future. I am of a generation that doesn't want everything now and not pressured by the hype of the media that todays news is old news.

I believe that it is not too late to build for the future but that means getting the football side of the Club right first. It means getting in a progressive manager and coaching, not the 'think of today' crew we have now. You cannot keep on thinking of just the next match because the future will not take care of it's self.

The 'Villa engine' is the right approach but it has to be more than just words.

The financial situation has changed that.  If we don't go up this season, we will have to make real cut backs which of course will impact on the playing side.   

Online kippaxvilla2

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6691 on: September 22, 2017, 08:12:05 AM »
Despite all the 'glitz and glam' of the PL football is dying on its arse in other areas given the contempt for example that the clubs have for the so called minor competitions like the cups (not minor in my opinion).  Nothing more demonstrated than the other night where they expected people to show up in numbers despite the fact that our really poor 2nd team were playing Middlesbrough's 2nd team whilst also trying to mug people off on price.  I hate the modern game in so many ways.

Offline Clampy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6692 on: September 22, 2017, 08:37:48 AM »
Even if we didn't go up straight away I expected us to dish out some real pastings. In the 54 league games we've played down here, Norwich is the only time we've scored 4. And we've managed 3 in three other games.

PL54 F57 A57.

Mind you (and I possibly stand correct) but I don't remember Newcastle giving out to many pastings last season. They just got the wins to get them up.

Offline old man villa fan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6693 on: September 22, 2017, 08:38:11 AM »
We can get back into the Premier League, be competitive and climb back towards the top but, I believe,  it can only be done taking small steps. It will take time. It will not work doing what we are now and that is throwing everything at getting promotion, without a thought for the future. I am of a generation that doesn't want everything now and not pressured by the hype of the media that todays news is old news.

I believe that it is not too late to build for the future but that means getting the football side of the Club right first. It means getting in a progressive manager and coaching, not the 'think of today' crew we have now. You cannot keep on thinking of just the next match because the future will not take care of it's self.

The 'Villa engine' is the right approach but it has to be more than just words.

The financial situation has changed that.  If we don't go up this season, we will have to make real cut backs which of course will impact on the playing side.

Yes, understand that but a less costly base can be better in the long run. Are we getting value for money out of the big squad we have - no. Are we getting value for money out of the high wages we pay to many of our players - no.  Our approach has been wrong for years.  We have bought too many players on their way down and at wages almost as high as when they were at the top.  We need to go the other way.

Teams have been successful in this division in recent years without spending fortunes and have continued to be relatively successful in the PL.  Clubs that traditionally have been smaller than us and with less pulling power. It is all about planning for the short term, medium term and long term.

Online ChicagoLion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6694 on: September 22, 2017, 08:54:46 AM »
We can get back into the Premier League, be competitive and climb back towards the top but, I believe,  it can only be done taking small steps. It will take time. It will not work doing what we are now and that is throwing everything at getting promotion, without a thought for the future. I am of a generation that doesn't want everything now and not pressured by the hype of the media that todays news is old news.

I believe that it is not too late to build for the future but that means getting the football side of the Club right first. It means getting in a progressive manager and coaching, not the 'think of today' crew we have now. You cannot keep on thinking of just the next match because the future will not take care of it's self.

The 'Villa engine' is the right approach but it has to be more than just words.

The financial situation has changed that.  If we don't go up this season, we will have to make real cut backs which of course will impact on the playing side.

Yes, understand that but a less costly base can be better in the long run. Are we getting value for money out of the big squad we have - no. Are we getting value for money out of the high wages we pay to many of our players - no.  Our approach has been wrong for years.  We have bought too many players on their way down and at wages almost as high as when they were at the top.  We need to go the other way.

Teams have been successful in this division in recent years without spending fortunes and have continued to be relatively successful in the PL.  Clubs that traditionally have been smaller than us and with less pulling power. It is all about planning for the short term, medium term and long term.
The problem is that adjustment is going to take time and money, so as each year goes by with relegated teams coming down with massively more resources than us We will be trying to go through a rebuilding process with very little money.
It is difficult to under estimate how fucked we are as a result of Lerner extreme mis management,FFP and our last chance cash being wasted by RDM and Bruce.
Add to that every team in Division 2 is trying to do the same.

Offline Risso

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6695 on: September 22, 2017, 09:42:13 AM »
Even if we didn't go up straight away I expected us to dish out some real pastings. In the 54 league games we've played down here, Norwich is the only time we've scored 4. And we've managed 3 in three other games.

PL54 F57 A57.

Mind you (and I possibly stand correct) but I don't remember Newcastle giving out to many pastings last season. They just got the wins to get them up.

Newcastle 4 - Reading 1
QPR 0 - Newcastle 6
Newcastle 4 - Norwich 3
Newcastle 3 - Reading 1
Newcastle 3 - Ipswich 0
Newcastle 6 - Preston 0 (EFL Cup)
Newcastle 4 - Blues 0
Newcastle 3 - Forest 1
Newcastle 4 - Rotherham 0
Newcastle 3 - Huddersfield 1
Newcastle 4 - Preston 1
Newcastle 3 - Barnsley 0

So they scored at least 3 goals in a quarter of their league games

Online Marlon From Bearwood

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6696 on: September 22, 2017, 09:46:41 AM »
To those saying it's going to be a long slow process to get promoted, especially if we don't go up this season, just remember that Huddersfield finished 19th in the Championship just over a year ago and are now holding their own in the PL.

You can get promoted quickly and cheaply, but you need a bright, progressive manager who knows what he's doing plus a squad that totally buys in to his methods. This is what's we're currently lacking.

Online tomd2103

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6697 on: September 22, 2017, 09:50:29 AM »
We can get back into the Premier League, be competitive and climb back towards the top but, I believe,  it can only be done taking small steps. It will take time. It will not work doing what we are now and that is throwing everything at getting promotion, without a thought for the future. I am of a generation that doesn't want everything now and not pressured by the hype of the media that todays news is old news.

I believe that it is not too late to build for the future but that means getting the football side of the Club right first. It means getting in a progressive manager and coaching, not the 'think of today' crew we have now. You cannot keep on thinking of just the next match because the future will not take care of it's self.

The 'Villa engine' is the right approach but it has to be more than just words.

The financial situation has changed that.  If we don't go up this season, we will have to make real cut backs which of course will impact on the playing side.

Yes, understand that but a less costly base can be better in the long run. Are we getting value for money out of the big squad we have - no. Are we getting value for money out of the high wages we pay to many of our players - no.  Our approach has been wrong for years.  We have bought too many players on their way down and at wages almost as high as when they were at the top.  We need to go the other way.

Teams have been successful in this division in recent years without spending fortunes and have continued to be relatively successful in the PL.  Clubs that traditionally have been smaller than us and with less pulling power. It is all about planning for the short term, medium term and long term.

Agree with all of that and if we don't go up this season, we'll probably have to look at that approach anyway.  As has been pointed out, it won't be an overnight fix and will probably mean an extended stay in the Championship. 

Offline Damo70

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6698 on: September 22, 2017, 10:15:52 AM »
We can get back into the Premier League, be competitive and climb back towards the top but, I believe,  it can only be done taking small steps. It will take time. It will not work doing what we are now and that is throwing everything at getting promotion, without a thought for the future. I am of a generation that doesn't want everything now and not pressured by the hype of the media that todays news is old news.

I believe that it is not too late to build for the future but that means getting the football side of the Club right first. It means getting in a progressive manager and coaching, not the 'think of today' crew we have now. You cannot keep on thinking of just the next match because the future will not take care of it's self.

The 'Villa engine' is the right approach but it has to be more than just words.

The financial situation has changed that.  If we don't go up this season, we will have to make real cut backs which of course will impact on the playing side.

Yes, understand that but a less costly base can be better in the long run. Are we getting value for money out of the big squad we have - no. Are we getting value for money out of the high wages we pay to many of our players - no.  Our approach has been wrong for years.  We have bought too many players on their way down and at wages almost as high as when they were at the top.  We need to go the other way.

Teams have been successful in this division in recent years without spending fortunes and have continued to be relatively successful in the PL.  Clubs that traditionally have been smaller than us and with less pulling power. It is all about planning for the short term, medium term and long term.


You may be right about us bringing in too many players on their way down on high wages. My only concern with us going the other way is I can't quite shake the Lerner/Lambert mantra of 'young and hungry' from my mind.

Online SoccerHQ

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6699 on: September 22, 2017, 10:17:53 AM »
Likes of Chester and Kodjia will leave imo if we don't go up this season.

With reduced parachute payments and mayny of our over 30s being a year older I don't think we'd be in a great position.

Let's hope it dosen't come to it.

Offline KRS

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6700 on: September 22, 2017, 10:51:11 AM »
To those saying it's going to be a long slow process to get promoted, especially if we don't go up this season, just remember that Huddersfield finished 19th in the Championship just over a year ago and are now holding their own in the PL.

You can get promoted quickly and cheaply, but you need a bright, progressive manager who knows what he's doing plus a squad that totally buys in to his methods. This is what's we're currently lacking.
It's been said before, and it's pretty much the reason why this thread is fast approaching 450 pages long, but any manager worth his salt should be able to get this squad promoted out of this division given the resources at his disposal. This whole slowly slowly catchy monkey debate isn't necessary given the financial position we find ourselves in, the consequential risk and implications of not getting promoted, and the investment that has already been made into the squad. There can be no excuses.

Online paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6701 on: September 22, 2017, 10:56:43 AM »
We can get back into the Premier League, be competitive and climb back towards the top but, I believe,  it can only be done taking small steps. It will take time. It will not work doing what we are now and that is throwing everything at getting promotion, without a thought for the future. I am of a generation that doesn't want everything now and not pressured by the hype of the media that todays news is old news.

I believe that it is not too late to build for the future but that means getting the football side of the Club right first. It means getting in a progressive manager and coaching, not the 'think of today' crew we have now. You cannot keep on thinking of just the next match because the future will not take care of it's self.

The 'Villa engine' is the right approach but it has to be more than just words.

The financial situation has changed that.  If we don't go up this season, we will have to make real cut backs which of course will impact on the playing side.

Yes, understand that but a less costly base can be better in the long run. Are we getting value for money out of the big squad we have - no. Are we getting value for money out of the high wages we pay to many of our players - no.  Our approach has been wrong for years.  We have bought too many players on their way down and at wages almost as high as when they were at the top.  We need to go the other way.

Teams have been successful in this division in recent years without spending fortunes and have continued to be relatively successful in the PL.  Clubs that traditionally have been smaller than us and with less pulling power. It is all about planning for the short term, medium term and long term.


You may be right about us bringing in too many players on their way down on high wages. My only concern with us going the other way is I can't quite shake the Lerner/Lambert mantra of 'young and hungry' from my mind.

The thing is the idea behind that approach was a good one but it only works if you have a coaching setup that improves the players, other wise you end up with inexperienced players playing at a standard below where you are, which is largely what happened.

Offline KRS

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6702 on: September 22, 2017, 10:58:01 AM »
Even if we didn't go up straight away I expected us to dish out some real pastings. In the 54 league games we've played down here, Norwich is the only time we've scored 4. And we've managed 3 in three other games.

PL54 F57 A57.

Mind you (and I possibly stand correct) but I don't remember Newcastle giving out to many pastings last season. They just got the wins to get them up.
Newcastle scored 85 goals with a +45 GD last season. As listed above, they gave out quite a few pastings in the process...and I dont think it's unreasonable for us to expect those kind of performances from our own team on a regular basis in this division. Again, it comes down to the successive failings of RDM and Bruce that we haven't and don't seem capable of this.

Online tomd2103

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6703 on: September 22, 2017, 11:02:20 AM »
We can get back into the Premier League, be competitive and climb back towards the top but, I believe,  it can only be done taking small steps. It will take time. It will not work doing what we are now and that is throwing everything at getting promotion, without a thought for the future. I am of a generation that doesn't want everything now and not pressured by the hype of the media that todays news is old news.

I believe that it is not too late to build for the future but that means getting the football side of the Club right first. It means getting in a progressive manager and coaching, not the 'think of today' crew we have now. You cannot keep on thinking of just the next match because the future will not take care of it's self.

The 'Villa engine' is the right approach but it has to be more than just words.

The financial situation has changed that.  If we don't go up this season, we will have to make real cut backs which of course will impact on the playing side.

Yes, understand that but a less costly base can be better in the long run. Are we getting value for money out of the big squad we have - no. Are we getting value for money out of the high wages we pay to many of our players - no.  Our approach has been wrong for years.  We have bought too many players on their way down and at wages almost as high as when they were at the top.  We need to go the other way.

Teams have been successful in this division in recent years without spending fortunes and have continued to be relatively successful in the PL.  Clubs that traditionally have been smaller than us and with less pulling power. It is all about planning for the short term, medium term and long term.


You may be right about us bringing in too many players on their way down on high wages. My only concern with us going the other way is I can't quite shake the Lerner/Lambert mantra of 'young and hungry' from my mind.

The thing is the idea behind that approach was a good one but it only works if you have a coaching setup that improves the players, other wise you end up with inexperienced players playing at a standard below where you are, which is largely what happened.

Agree and you probably need a sprinkling of good, experienced pros who can help out as well, not the likes of Agbonlahor. 

Online JUAN PABLO

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6704 on: September 22, 2017, 11:59:34 AM »
its so depressing when i have to wait 50 mins before I see any villa highlights on that Channel 5 footy programme.