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Re: Other Games - 2017/18 by Chris Jameson
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Re: Bruce out? by Clampy
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Re: Bruce out? by Tugby Villain
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Re: Bruce out? by Toronto Villa
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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 320277 times)

Offline Mister E

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6495 on: September 18, 2017, 06:35:08 PM »
Agree SP.  Bruce has been given more slack to come good than any of his six predecessors.  He has been willed to succeed by the club and the fans far more than Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Garde and RDM. 
I realise that this year was my fiftieth year of attending games at VP. I think in absolute terms that McNeill, TSM and Garde probably served up the most crap, most consistently. Our current manager does, however, have the benefits you list, Brian, which is why I'm getting very frustrated by his apparent inability to turn it all around.

Offline Gregorys Boy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6496 on: September 18, 2017, 06:35:59 PM »
I think Bruce has suffered from an embarrassment of riches when previously he's always had to deal with having a smaller squad. Like a kid in a sweet shop, he's filled him fat gob with everything in front of him and after vomiting performances he's hopefully realised he has to pick and mix more carefully.

He has a squad of 33 when even managers like Mourinho set out to have 24 or 25. Bruce can't be blamed completely for the squad size but he's fully responsible for not choosing his favourites and getting them to work. If Billy Bunter really does think fans are hysterical based on his record at Villa Park he's not the right manager for us and should step aside for somebody more capable of dealing with the expections of managing a club our size.

Like hardly any manager we've had in years has you mean?

Maybe (very big IF type of maybe) he'll grow into it.

My question to that would be if you're happy to have  manager that grows into things would you pick a 56 year old who's main reason for being on the list is that he's experienced.  What value is there to that experience if he still needs 11 months of learning on the job to realise things that anyone on this forum could've pointing out to him at Christmas?  At what point do we look at the squad and question the results are coming just because we have a good squad rather than because of anything Bruce is doing?
I you're going to blame the defeats on Bruce it's a bit daft to then say but if we win it's nothing to do with him.  It almost sounds like you don't really like him Paul?

It's not about liking him or not but I'm not surprised that you'd suggest that because I don't think you've ever understood why I don't think he's the right manager for us.  I have no opinion on him either way as a person but as a manager I thought he was a knee-jerk appointment that failed and the people responsible for it have spent the last few months trying to repackage him as modern, thoughtful manager who they can use to build a long-term plan around despite there being nothing in his CV to suggest he's got any idea how to be that.

Last season I accepted him before Chirstmas other than stating that he needed to go to places like Blues and Leeds and try to win if he was going to get us into the playoffs.  Where he lost me was when he had 10 games without a win over Christmas and January which made it impossible for us to make the play offs and it got brushed aside.  When he repeated that same trick at the end of last season and the start of this one it just served to reinforce the fact that, for me, he doesn't know how to approach games when the expectation is to play to win every week.

He wasn't a knee jerk appointment for me.  A knee jerk appointment is when there is no thought put into it and is like a roll of a dice.  But Bruce has established history of getting teams promoted from the Championship, and he is also good at organising teams from the back.  That's why he was appointed.  Now is the time to judge him.  If the play-offs are in sight at Christmas then its stick.  But if not then I think its fair enough to twist.

Offline KRS

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6497 on: September 18, 2017, 06:42:23 PM »
If he doesn't want criticism he shouldn't have spent 11 months serving up some the worst football and results any of us have ever seen.
That's a matter of opinion though. I don't think the football has been poor, I just think there's been too many times when we haven't played very well at all, piss poor in fact. I think it was worse in the season we went down, much worse,
So you justify the football hasn't been poor by saying we've played piss poor...which can only mean that the football has been piss poor. We were shockingly bad in the relegation season but some of the performances/football we've seen on the pitch under Bruce have been little short of pathetic. As a recent example, the Brentford game last week was one of the worst Villa performances or display of "football" that I've seen in my lifetime. 

Online Clampy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6498 on: September 18, 2017, 06:46:41 PM »
If he doesn't want criticism he shouldn't have spent 11 months serving up some the worst football and results any of us have ever seen.
That's a matter of opinion though. I don't think the football has been poor, I just think there's been too many times when we haven't played very well at all, piss poor in fact. I think it was worse in the season we went down, much worse,
So you justify the football hasn't been poor by saying we've played piss poor...which can only mean that the football has been piss poor. We were shockingly bad in the relegation season but some of the performances/football we've seen on the pitch under Bruce have been little short of pathetic. As a recent example, the Brentford game last week was one of the worst Villa performances or display of "football" that I've seen in my lifetime. 

No. I don't think we play poor football. I just think we've at times not played very well. It's not justification, I don't need to justify anything.

Offline Villa75

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6499 on: September 18, 2017, 06:51:11 PM »
Bruce is managing us in the 2nd division.

There is no excuse for what he is serving up. None at all.

Offline CT

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6500 on: September 18, 2017, 06:56:44 PM »
If he doesn't want criticism he shouldn't have spent 11 months serving up some the worst football and results any of us have ever seen.
That's a matter of opinion though. I don't think the football has been poor, I just think there's been too many times when we haven't played very well at all, piss poor in fact. I think it was worse in the season we went down, much worse,
So you justify the football hasn't been poor by saying we've played piss poor...which can only mean that the football has been piss poor. We were shockingly bad in the relegation season but some of the performances/football we've seen on the pitch under Bruce have been little short of pathetic. As a recent example, the Brentford game last week was one of the worst Villa performances or display of "football" that I've seen in my lifetime. 

No. I don't think we play poor football. I just think we've at times not played very well. It's not justification, I don't need to justify anything.

Sometimes I think it's just a question of time. I think most of us can look back over all the managers since M.O.N and say we saw performances that ranked amongst  "the worst ever". Certainly that second half against Brentford was right up there, especially as it seemed he wasn't even setting out to try and win the game.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6501 on: September 18, 2017, 06:58:50 PM »
It's not about liking him or not but I'm not surprised that you'd suggest that because I don't think you've ever understood why I don't think he's the right manager for us.  I have no opinion on him either way as a person but as a manager I thought he was a knee-jerk appointment that failed and the people responsible for it have spent the last few months trying to repackage him as modern, thoughtful manager who they can use to build a long-term plan around despite there being nothing in his CV to suggest he's got any idea how to be that.

Last season I accepted him before Chirstmas other than stating that he needed to go to places like Blues and Leeds and try to win if he was going to get us into the playoffs.  Where he lost me was when he had 10 games without a win over Christmas and January which made it impossible for us to make the play offs and it got brushed aside.  When he repeated that same trick at the end of last season and the start of this one it just served to reinforce the fact that, for me, he doesn't know how to approach games when the expectation is to play to win every week.

He wasn't a knee jerk appointment for me.  A knee jerk appointment is when there is no thought put into it and is like a roll of a dice.  But Bruce has established history of getting teams promoted from the Championship, and he is also good at organising teams from the back.  That's why he was appointed.  Now is the time to judge him.  If the play-offs are in sight at Christmas then its stick.  But if not then I think its fair enough to twist.

Of course he was, they were desperate to get promoted at the first opportunity and sacked RDM very quickly when they were worried he wouldn't make it.  They then went for the obvious choice of someone with a few promotions under his belt but without really looking at the long term plans, his playing style or the squad he'd be inheriting.  We shouldn't have needed to sign half a squad from where we were, a couple of midfielders and maybe a goalkeeper (I thought Gollini was ok but we needed a better experienced alternative than Bunn) away from having a squad capable of challenging in the play offs.  Yes the squad is stronger now (except on the left) but all his changes also created a lot of the problems we've had.

Online Clampy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6502 on: September 18, 2017, 07:06:07 PM »
I don't think it was a knee jerk reaction either. They went with someone who's got a decent record of getting teams out of the league.

Offline KRS

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6503 on: September 18, 2017, 07:22:20 PM »
If he doesn't want criticism he shouldn't have spent 11 months serving up some the worst football and results any of us have ever seen.
That's a matter of opinion though. I don't think the football has been poor, I just think there's been too many times when we haven't played very well at all, piss poor in fact. I think it was worse in the season we went down, much worse,
So you justify the football hasn't been poor by saying we've played piss poor...which can only mean that the football has been piss poor. We were shockingly bad in the relegation season but some of the performances/football we've seen on the pitch under Bruce have been little short of pathetic. As a recent example, the Brentford game last week was one of the worst Villa performances or display of "football" that I've seen in my lifetime. 
No. I don't think we play poor football. I just think we've at times not played very well. It's not justification, I don't need to justify anything.
May be "justify" was the wrong word to use, but we're going to have to agree to disagree because I think we're not playing very well at playing poor football. We have no clear style of play, set formation or tactics which should define the football, and the fact that we can hardly pass to each other at the best of times and have no movement or creativity is symptomatic of the fact that we're not playing well...even if they got the basics right, then we would still be playing poor football but doing it not quite so badly.

Offline sirlordbaltimore

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6504 on: September 18, 2017, 07:48:03 PM »
Sometimes I think it's just a question of time. I think most of us can look back over all the managers since M.O.N and say we saw performances that ranked amongst  "the worst ever". Certainly that second half against Brentford was right up there, especially as it seemed he wasn't even setting out to try and win the game.

Let us not forget we had a LOT of bleating about worst football ever seen under O'Neill as well. And others. It's nothing new for us to have a loud minority moaning about whatever's going on on the pitch. It's the way it's always been as long as i've been going (aged 10) anyway

You'd be forgiven for thinking they'd previously been used to watching Barcelona or Brazil circa '82 style football the way they go on

Offline PeterWithesShin

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6505 on: September 18, 2017, 07:53:02 PM »
How dare anyone criticise the manager for being the only one in over 40 years that keeps us mainly in the bottom half of division 2. We should be grateful we win 1 game a month.

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6506 on: September 18, 2017, 07:53:52 PM »
Sometimes I think it's just a question of time. I think most of us can look back over all the managers since M.O.N and say we saw performances that ranked amongst  "the worst ever". Certainly that second half against Brentford was right up there, especially as it seemed he wasn't even setting out to try and win the game.

Let us not forget we had a LOT of bleating about worst football ever seen under O'Neill as well. And others. It's nothing new for us to have a loud minority moaning about whatever's going on on the pitch. It's the way it's always been as long as i've been going (aged 10) anyway

You'd be forgiven for thinking they'd previously been used to watching Barcelona or Brazil circa '82 style football the way they go on

What utter nonsense.

Brasil 82 only made it to the quarter finals, their worst finish since 1954.

Offline sirlordbaltimore

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6507 on: September 18, 2017, 07:55:28 PM »
How dare anyone criticise the manager for being the only one in over 40 years that keeps us mainly in the bottom half of division 2. We should be grateful we win 1 game a month.

Well not many of the others have had a team in this division to try and get out of have they ? what a bizarre comparison

Offline sirlordbaltimore

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6508 on: September 18, 2017, 07:56:00 PM »
Sometimes I think it's just a question of time. I think most of us can look back over all the managers since M.O.N and say we saw performances that ranked amongst  "the worst ever". Certainly that second half against Brentford was right up there, especially as it seemed he wasn't even setting out to try and win the game.

Let us not forget we had a LOT of bleating about worst football ever seen under O'Neill as well. And others. It's nothing new for us to have a loud minority moaning about whatever's going on on the pitch. It's the way it's always been as long as i've been going (aged 10) anyway

You'd be forgiven for thinking they'd previously been used to watching Barcelona or Brazil circa '82 style football the way they go on

What utter nonsense.

Brasil 82 only made it to the quarter finals, their worst finish since 1954.

Beautiful football though .. and that's what folks want apparently

Offline brian green

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6509 on: September 18, 2017, 07:57:05 PM »
That was one hell of a minority moaning at McLeish in the Bolton game.  And yes, we really used to be very good.