collapse

Please donate to help keep this site going.

* The Fanzine

Heroes & Villains Fanzine



Get your fix of all things Claret & Blue by subscribing to the online version!

Recent Posts

Re: Other Games - 2017/18 by Damo70
[Today at 07:07:09 AM]


Re: Other Games - 2017/18 by Ian J
[Today at 06:50:27 AM]


Re: The Cricket Thread 2017 by taylorsworkrate
[Today at 06:45:38 AM]


Re: The Cricket Thread 2017 by PaulWinch again
[Today at 06:44:07 AM]


Re: Short term - back up to Davis by Villafirst
[Today at 06:20:01 AM]

Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 326363 times)

Offline Ads

  • prolific poster
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 20647
  • Location: The upside down
  • GM : 13.02.2017
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6465 on: September 18, 2017, 02:20:32 PM »
If he doesn't want criticism he shouldn't have spent 11 months serving up some the worst football and results any of us have ever seen.

That's a matter of opinion though. I don't think the football has been poor, I just think there's been too many times when we haven't played very well at all, piss poor in fact. I think it was worse in the season we went down, much worse,

We were getting schooled by PL sides which was bad enough, now we're being schooled at times by mediocre division 2 sides. Being spanked by Brentford is a lot worse than being spanked by some of the top sides in the country. Long runs struggling to win in division 2 are worse results than long runs struggling to win in division 1. And considering the standard of opposition every week, our football is pretty woeful.

I disagree. Sometimes you get turned over, it happens to all sides. Getting drilled to death by Chelsea and our metaphorical corpse being defiled thereafter will remain the most embarrassing episode in the clubs history and the most appalling thing football wise I hope to ever watch.

Although out of all the shit I have had the misfortune of spending a fortune to witness was that 2-0 at Spurs in November 2011. Harrowing. The horror of it. The horror. Not as embarrassing as being drummed, but the scales falling from your eyes and the realization that we are, just utter shit.

Cost me 150 travelling back from that game. Picking up an SP50 at half 1 on the Thelwall Viaduct and needing to buy Battlefield 3 to cheer me up the following day, having took a day off.

Offline Drummond

  • player manager
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 14636
  • Age: 46
  • GM : 16.10.2017
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6466 on: September 18, 2017, 02:22:58 PM »
If he doesn't want criticism he shouldn't have spent 11 months serving up some the worst football and results any of us have ever seen.

After Lambert, McLeish, RDM, Turner, etc, that would be some accolade.

To be fair, why shouldn't he respond? Do we want a manager who rolls over and has his tummy tickled? Or do we want a fighter?

He has said we're shit (see quotes after Cardiff) he's also tried to put positive spin on situations too (see recent quotes before a game where he also made out Cardiff hadn't been that bad).

Basically, when results are going well, supporters couldn't give a shit about what a manager says. We're sick of football though aren't we? The last god knows how many years have been spent playing crap football, selling our best players, losing games and being humbled.

I know he and the players are paid a fortune for what they do, but it doesn't stop them being human and it doesn't mean they don't care. Why would they live in a bubble without social media, nobody else does.

Some of the responses from supporters is hysterical, some of them are fickle, we just don't want to be called it when we're talking about the continued shit we've been served up for years.

I hope he wins every game, I hope he builds something like Ferguson did at Old Trafford when he was rumoured to be one game from the chop. Can't see it mind you!!

2 bold bits - make up your mind, are the results bad enough that fans who wouldn't say anything have started to show some anger, in which case it's not hysterical or fickle to point out that he's underachieving or are the expectations unfair and the comments are justifiably called hysteria?  Only 1 of those can be true.

He himself has used the 'worst since I've been here' line about 7-8 times which suggests a downward trajectory which makes it clear that the performances haven't been good enough over a period of time.  Given that is he fair to call people who point that out (other than himself) vultures and accuse them of being hysterical?

The solution is to stop playing such shit football and to put together a run of results and if he does that then, and only then, he should come out and say something (which should include acknowledging that the start of the season was fucking shit).  By acting like a tit after 1 win he's just setting himself up for a significant increase in the unrest if we fall back again.

It can be a number of things to a number of people. I think the criticism and language is over the top at times, and I wanted to give him until October, then when things felt like they weren't improving decided to vote that he should be sacked. Now, after a good win and being undefeated for a while feel like he should have the next couple. I'm sure I'm not alone and I guess I'm fickle as a result.

As for hysteria, well yes, I think some responses are way, way OTT.

Offline tomd2103

  • coach
  • *
  • Posts: 8827
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6467 on: September 18, 2017, 02:27:38 PM »
If he doesn't want criticism he shouldn't have spent 11 months serving up some the worst football and results any of us have ever seen.

After Lambert, McLeish, RDM, Turner, etc, that would be some accolade.

To be fair, why shouldn't he respond? Do we want a manager who rolls over and has his tummy tickled? Or do we want a fighter?

He has said we're shit (see quotes after Cardiff) he's also tried to put positive spin on situations too (see recent quotes before a game where he also made out Cardiff hadn't been that bad).

Basically, when results are going well, supporters couldn't give a shit about what a manager says. We're sick of football though aren't we? The last god knows how many years have been spent playing crap football, selling our best players, losing games and being humbled.

I know he and the players are paid a fortune for what they do, but it doesn't stop them being human and it doesn't mean they don't care. Why would they live in a bubble without social media, nobody else does.

Some of the responses from supporters is hysterical, some of them are fickle, we just don't want to be called it when we're talking about the continued shit we've been served up for years.

I hope he wins every game, I hope he builds something like Ferguson did at Old Trafford when he was rumoured to be one game from the chop. Can't see it mind you!!

Got no problem with him responding in a certain way and as you said I'm sure criticism stings no matter how big your pay packet is.  What I find strange is that he doesn't seem to be able to accept why fans have been critical (must say that 'hysterical' is way over the top and I've not heard or read anything that is even close to that) and seems to have erased last season from his memory.

I'm not surprised he wants to erase last season and begon this with a clean slate. We've been, on average over the last 8 games, bang average.

I think he does accept that things haven't been good, but also perhaps he feels that he has a plan and that it's starting to work.

The response to a draw from fans is, at times, OTT, but then when you take the last few years into consideration, along with the money, size of squad etc, we have a right to voice our concerns.

I'm not surprised he wants to either, but I'm amazed that he seemingly thinks it will not be a factor in people's judgment of him.

I would like to share your belief that he may have a plan, but the constant changing of formations and personnel suggests otherwise.  I am not one for booing at games or blasting off on social media, but I don't really have any faith in him turning things around.     

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

  • prolific poster
  • *
  • Posts: 26308
  • Location: In the Shade
    • http://www.heroespredictions.co.uk/pl/
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6468 on: September 18, 2017, 02:30:13 PM »
I think Bruce has suffered from an embarrassment of riches when previously he's always had to deal with having a smaller squad. Like a kid in a sweet shop, he's filled him fat gob with everything in front of him and after vomiting performances he's hopefully realised he has to pick and mix more carefully.

He has a squad of 33 when even managers like Mourinho set out to have 24 or 25. Bruce can't be blamed completely for the squad size but he's fully responsible for not choosing his favourites and getting them to work. If Billy Bunter really does think fans are hysterical based on his record at Villa Park he's not the right manager for us and should step aside for somebody more capable of dealing with the expections of managing a club our size.

Offline Risso

  • prolific poster
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 45260
  • Location: Northants
  • GM : 07.02.2017
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6469 on: September 18, 2017, 02:33:11 PM »
How does having a pointless, childish dig at fans make Bruce a 'fighter'?  I'd rather he show his battling credentials by not playing 5 away from home at the likes of Bristol, for instance.

What makes his comments 'pointless, childish'? So you want him to roll the clock back a few weeks to show he's a fighter, rather than respond to the criticism he's had. And do it after a 0-3 win.

Pointless - what does it achieve other than getting fans' backs up even more?
Childish - it could only be more childish if he'd stuck his tongue out and gone 'ner ner ner ner.'

Offline Drummond

  • player manager
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 14636
  • Age: 46
  • GM : 16.10.2017
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6470 on: September 18, 2017, 02:34:11 PM »
I think Bruce has suffered from an embarrassment of riches when previously he's always had to deal with having a smaller squad. Like a kid in a sweet shop, he's filled him fat gob with everything in front of him and after vomiting performances he's hopefully realised he has to pick and mix more carefully.

He has a squad of 33 when even managers like Mourinho set out to have 24 or 25. Bruce can't be blamed completely for the squad size but he's fully responsible for not choosing his favourites and getting them to work. If Billy Bunter really does think fans are hysterical based on his record at Villa Park he's not the right manager for us and should step aside for somebody more capable of dealing with the expections of managing a club our size.

Like hardly any manager we've had in years has you mean?

Maybe (very big IF type of maybe) he'll grow into it.

Offline tomd2103

  • coach
  • *
  • Posts: 8827
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6471 on: September 18, 2017, 02:40:06 PM »
I think Bruce has suffered from an embarrassment of riches when previously he's always had to deal with having a smaller squad. Like a kid in a sweet shop, he's filled him fat gob with everything in front of him and after vomiting performances he's hopefully realised he has to pick and mix more carefully.

He has a squad of 33 when even managers like Mourinho set out to have 24 or 25. Bruce can't be blamed completely for the squad size but he's fully responsible for not choosing his favourites and getting them to work. If Billy Bunter really does think fans are hysterical based on his record at Villa Park he's not the right manager for us and should step aside for somebody more capable of dealing with the expections of managing a club our size.

Like hardly any manager we've had in years has you mean?

Maybe (very big IF type of maybe) he'll grow into it.

He might, but we haven't got time to see how that pans out.  We are facing massive changes at the club if we don't go up this season. 

Offline Drummond

  • player manager
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 14636
  • Age: 46
  • GM : 16.10.2017
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6472 on: September 18, 2017, 02:41:38 PM »
We do if we keep winning.

Offline PeterWithesShin

  • Moderator
  • prolific poster
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 45915
  • Location: B16
  • GM : 17.03.2015
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6473 on: September 18, 2017, 02:42:33 PM »
Getting beaten, and well beaten, does happen to everyone, going months at a time struggling to beat division 2 sides, and to even look like an attacking threat doesn't to Aston Villa. Certainly not in my just over 40 years of watching us, until now. I've no doubt you've had worse days following Villa in the past Ads, but i'm on about the average standard of our results and performances. You'd have to be 50+ to remember us being this crap.

Offline tomd2103

  • coach
  • *
  • Posts: 8827
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6474 on: September 18, 2017, 02:45:03 PM »
We do if we keep winning.

Well, yes, but it's going to take quite a turnaround in results and performances.  We are now where we were after the Norwich game a few weeks ago and we weren't able to build on that, so we will see.

Offline Drummond

  • player manager
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 14636
  • Age: 46
  • GM : 16.10.2017
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6475 on: September 18, 2017, 02:52:26 PM »
We do if we keep winning.

Well, yes, but it's going to take quite a turnaround in results and performances.  We are now where we were after the Norwich game a few weeks ago and we weren't able to build on that, so we will see.

Exactly right. Surely it has to happen sometime?

Offline The Edge

  • first team
  • *
  • Posts: 1491
  • Location: Birmingham
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6476 on: September 18, 2017, 02:56:07 PM »
How does having a pointless, childish dig at fans make Bruce a 'fighter'?  I'd rather he show his battling credentials by not playing 5 away from home at the likes of Bristol, for instance.

What makes his comments 'pointless, childish'? So you want him to roll the clock back a few weeks to show he's a fighter, rather than respond to the criticism he's had. And do it after a 0-3 win.

Pointless - what does it achieve other than getting fans' backs up even more?
Childish - it could only be more childish if he'd stuck his tongue out and gone 'ner ner ner ner.'
You missed a "ner"

Offline tomd2103

  • coach
  • *
  • Posts: 8827
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6477 on: September 18, 2017, 03:00:19 PM »
We do if we keep winning.

Well, yes, but it's going to take quite a turnaround in results and performances.  We are now where we were after the Norwich game a few weeks ago and we weren't able to build on that, so we will see.

Exactly right. Surely it has to happen sometime?

You would think so, but I haven't seen anything during his time here to suggest that he is capable of producing a run like that.  I obviously hope that my doubts prove to be wrong and he can turn things around.  The next three league games will be a good indicator I suppose.

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

  • prolific poster
  • *
  • Posts: 26308
  • Location: In the Shade
    • http://www.heroespredictions.co.uk/pl/
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6478 on: September 18, 2017, 03:17:58 PM »
I think Bruce has suffered from an embarrassment of riches when previously he's always had to deal with having a smaller squad. Like a kid in a sweet shop, he's filled him fat gob with everything in front of him and after vomiting performances he's hopefully realised he has to pick and mix more carefully.

He has a squad of 33 when even managers like Mourinho set out to have 24 or 25. Bruce can't be blamed completely for the squad size but he's fully responsible for not choosing his favourites and getting them to work. If Billy Bunter really does think fans are hysterical based on his record at Villa Park he's not the right manager for us and should step aside for somebody more capable of dealing with the expections of managing a club our size.

Like hardly any manager we've had in years has you mean?

Maybe (very big IF type of maybe) he'll grow into it.

It's our only hope. Listening to him sometimes, I get the feeling he thinks he has all the time in the world.

As for our previous managers, it would be hard to find a club of our size that repeatedly appoint shite managers as we do.

Maybe (very big IF type of maybe) we'll grow into it.

Offline paul_e

  • player manager
  • *
  • Posts: 14814
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Back from the frozen North
  • GM : July, 2013
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6479 on: September 18, 2017, 04:33:48 PM »
I think Bruce has suffered from an embarrassment of riches when previously he's always had to deal with having a smaller squad. Like a kid in a sweet shop, he's filled him fat gob with everything in front of him and after vomiting performances he's hopefully realised he has to pick and mix more carefully.

He has a squad of 33 when even managers like Mourinho set out to have 24 or 25. Bruce can't be blamed completely for the squad size but he's fully responsible for not choosing his favourites and getting them to work. If Billy Bunter really does think fans are hysterical based on his record at Villa Park he's not the right manager for us and should step aside for somebody more capable of dealing with the expections of managing a club our size.

Like hardly any manager we've had in years has you mean?

Maybe (very big IF type of maybe) he'll grow into it.

My question to that would be if you're happy to have  manager that grows into things would you pick a 56 year old who's main reason for being on the list is that he's experienced.  What value is there to that experience if he still needs 11 months of learning on the job to realise things that anyone on this forum could've pointing out to him at Christmas?  At what point do we look at the squad and question the results are coming just because we have a good squad rather than because of anything Bruce is doing?