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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 316095 times)

Offline Damo70

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6090 on: September 14, 2017, 01:29:13 PM »
He's been here 11 months, I still have no idea of what he thinks our best 11 is, what his preferred formation is or what our style of play is meant to be. We're a disjointed mess of individuals and nowhere near being a cohesive unit.

Ask fifty random Villa supporters what our best team is and i'll bet they wont agree on it either. And that's before we get into formations and what not.

On the way to the game in the car we always pick the side and formation and we never agree on either. Then you come home and put WM on and hear other Villa fans coming out with shit like 'we should never have dropped Hutton' or 'Elmo is no better than Bacuna' etc etc. If we can't agree on what the best team is it's not hard to understand why Bruce can't either. If the players turned up every week and gave their best it might help.

We're a mess.

Difference is we're not paid a small fortune to know these things. We're not the ones setting up the side each game, responsible for training, style of play and tactics. We also didn't spend 2 transfer windows signing most of them and aren't responsible for getting the best out of them.


You beat me to that post. Having been in a car full of Villa fans with differing opinions on many away trips and trips to home games everyone had their own take on things. Obviously, being an only child I was always right and everyone else was wrong.

Personally, I think he is too experienced to not know what he is doing. He is doing what he believes in. Trouble is, it ain't working.

Offline Lobsterboy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6091 on: September 14, 2017, 01:34:00 PM »
Facebook kindly reminded me this morning that it was a year to the day since I ranted about RDM and the fact that we had 7 points from 7 games. The source of my frustrations being the goals conceded in the 85th, 86th, 87th and 88th minutes v Sheffield Wednesday, Huddersfield, Notts Forest and Brentford. We can't even claim to be unlucky under Bruce; we're just 'Meh'.

He's clearly going to be here until Saturday where hopefully he'll either find the magic formula v Barnsley and we win handsomely or he doesn't and he's a goner

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6092 on: September 14, 2017, 01:36:56 PM »
Not sure where they've got this quote from: https://twitter.com/thevillazone/status/908281339861983232?s=04

Quote
Steve Bruce:
"I know for a fact we will climb the table. I know for a fact we will mount a challenge."

We had a manager (Lambert) saying things like that a couple of years ago and the board took him at his word and we got worse and worse.

Offline Clampy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6093 on: September 14, 2017, 01:39:18 PM »
Not sure where they've got this quote from: https://twitter.com/thevillazone/status/908281339861983232?s=04

Quote
Steve Bruce:
"I know for a fact we will climb the table. I know for a fact we will mount a challenge."

We had a manager (Lambert) saying things like that a couple of years ago and the board took him at his word and we got worse and worse.

The difference is I doubt Doctor Tone will give Bruce a new contract after 3 years if he's not doing it.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6094 on: September 14, 2017, 01:42:10 PM »
Not sure where they've got this quote from: https://twitter.com/thevillazone/status/908281339861983232?s=04

Quote
Steve Bruce:
"I know for a fact we will climb the table. I know for a fact we will mount a challenge."

We had a manager (Lambert) saying things like that a couple of years ago and the board took him at his word and we got worse and worse.

The difference is I doubt Doctor Tone will give Bruce a new contract after 3 years if he's not doing it.

Oh I agree, I just find it interesting how similar his comments are to what Lambert was saying, there's been a fair few times he's said things where you honestly wouldn't be able to pick which of them it had come from.

Offline cheltenhamlion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6095 on: September 14, 2017, 01:42:25 PM »
He's been here 11 months, I still have no idea of what he thinks our best 11 is, what his preferred formation is or what our style of play is meant to be. We're a disjointed mess of individuals and nowhere near being a cohesive unit.

Ask fifty random Villa supporters what our best team is and i'll bet they wont agree on it either. And that's before we get into formations and what not.

On the way to the game in the car we always pick the side and formation and we never agree on either. Then you come home and put WM on and hear other Villa fans coming out with shit like 'we should never have dropped Hutton' or 'Elmo is no better than Bacuna' etc etc. If we can't agree on what the best team is it's not hard to understand why Bruce can't either. If the players turned up every week and gave their best it might help.

We're a mess.



Bruce is being paid 2 milion fucking quid a year to work out a formation. And then to drill the  squad to play like it.

I don't get that salary for working out Jonesy is good as a blunt instrument on small cases. Or that Ant is a moody fucker but your stand out target men on bigger and more complex matters. Or fit the work round the buggers inbetween.

He has played or managed at a good level for 40 years. Why the fuck can't he see that attacking is the only way to go with our squad of players and fan expectations?

It is kick your desk out of window, shoot the cat, murder your neighbour blindingly obvious. So why can I see it and that prat can't?

Offline Ads

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6096 on: September 14, 2017, 01:47:11 PM »
Not sure where they've got this quote from: https://twitter.com/thevillazone/status/908281339861983232?s=04

Quote
Steve Bruce:
"I know for a fact we will climb the table. I know for a fact we will mount a challenge."

We had a manager (Lambert) saying things like that a couple of years ago and the board took him at his word and we got worse and worse.

Lambert was right though with his "we just will" comment, that season at least in respect of staying up.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6097 on: September 14, 2017, 02:02:39 PM »
Not sure where they've got this quote from: https://twitter.com/thevillazone/status/908281339861983232?s=04

Quote
Steve Bruce:
"I know for a fact we will climb the table. I know for a fact we will mount a challenge."

We had a manager (Lambert) saying things like that a couple of years ago and the board took him at his word and we got worse and worse.

Lambert was right though with his "we just will" comment, that season at least in respect of staying up.

He was, but that's not really my point.  As I said, it's how similar Bruce's comments are to the sort of stuff Lambert was coming out with every week.

For example:

Quote
"There's been some good goalkeeping in games and some poor finishing," Lambert told reporters ahead of the Boxing Day game against Swansea -- a match that Villa lost 1-0.
"It's not a lack of confidence. That's just the way it is.
"Things have gone against us in the last third, there's been good goalkeeping.
"But if the lads keep creating chances they will go in.
"I don't have a problem -- as long as they keep going into those areas to miss them."

compared to:

Quote
"It's a huge frustration for us, the chances we create and we don't score. I've said since I've been here that we're over reliant on Jonathan Kodjia. But at least he's back for us now.

"Tonight we've had 19 efforts, we've had Robert Snodgrass hit the bar, BIrkir Bjarnason's header from almost on the line and then Scott Hogan keeps one out for them. And you know it's not your night.

What's really important is that a couple of months after that first one we sacked the pillock having scored 12 goals in 25 games and scored 19 in the last 13 because Sherwood came in and made us attack as a team.

Offline cheltenhamlion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6098 on: September 14, 2017, 02:03:43 PM »
Not sure where they've got this quote from: https://twitter.com/thevillazone/status/908281339861983232?s=04

Quote
Steve Bruce:
"I know for a fact we will climb the table. I know for a fact we will mount a challenge."

We had a manager (Lambert) saying things like that a couple of years ago and the board took him at his word and we got worse and worse.

Lambert was right though with his "we just will" comment, that season at least in respect of staying up.

The thing is mate, we won't "just will" our way to promotion. You need to attack and score for that.

Offline Hookeysmith

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6099 on: September 14, 2017, 02:10:56 PM »
He's been here 11 months, I still have no idea of what he thinks our best 11 is, what his preferred formation is or what our style of play is meant to be. We're a disjointed mess of individuals and nowhere near being a cohesive unit.

Ask fifty random Villa supporters what our best team is and i'll bet they wont agree on it either. And that's before we get into formations and what not.

On the way to the game in the car we always pick the side and formation and we never agree on either. Then you come home and put WM on and hear other Villa fans coming out with shit like 'we should never have dropped Hutton' or 'Elmo is no better than Bacuna' etc etc. If we can't agree on what the best team is it's not hard to understand why Bruce can't either. If the players turned up every week and gave their best it might help.

We're a mess.



Yes I agree BUT

We are not on 3mil a year to sort it
It is not our life long career understanding the game and its finer points

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6100 on: September 14, 2017, 02:38:07 PM »
he sticks a young lad up front on his own while the rest of the team are 40 yards away . insane

This is the biggest problem for me and it's pretty easy to see so I can't work out how he's not addressing it.

If you go to something like this - https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1192362/Live/England-Championship-2017-2018-Aston-Villa-Middlesbrough - and look at the heatmaps you can see where the play was centred.  If you untick everyoe and then select 1 player at a time it becomes really clear that the only midfielder who got near to Davis was Hourihane, even though we were playing against 10 men.  Adomah made a big difference when he came on because he got much higher up the pitch.
Isn't this just because he starts with the defence deep and never condenses space. There is no pressing the ball.
So we rarely win the ball high up the pitch.
This is the Bruce way.

Offline mrfuse

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6101 on: September 14, 2017, 02:39:31 PM »
He's been here 11 months, I still have no idea of what he thinks our best 11 is, what his preferred formation is or what our style of play is meant to be. We're a disjointed mess of individuals and nowhere near being a cohesive unit.

Ask fifty random Villa supporters what our best team is and i'll bet they wont agree on it either. And that's before we get into formations and what not.

On the way to the game in the car we always pick the side and formation and we never agree on either. Then you come home and put WM on and hear other Villa fans coming out with shit like 'we should never have dropped Hutton' or 'Elmo is no better than Bacuna' etc etc. If we can't agree on what the best team is it's not hard to understand why Bruce can't either. If the players turned up every week and gave their best it might help.

We're a mess.



I disagree with the observation were a mess and with a fully fit squad, I would argue the team more or less picks itself. I also refuse to start picking on individuals while Bruce is in charge because In my opinion every player is being restricted and is loosing confidence in the complete negativity of Bruce's management.
We saw the difference in Hourihane the other week when Bruce accidentally let the shackles off.

I would imagine there would be a load of decent managers envying our squad and what they could do with it.

Offline mrfuse

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6102 on: September 14, 2017, 02:49:45 PM »
he sticks a young lad up front on his own while the rest of the team are 40 yards away . insane

This is the biggest problem for me and it's pretty easy to see so I can't work out how he's not addressing it.

If you go to something like this - https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1192362/Live/England-Championship-2017-2018-Aston-Villa-Middlesbrough - and look at the heatmaps you can see where the play was centred.  If you untick everyoe and then select 1 player at a time it becomes really clear that the only midfielder who got near to Davis was Hourihane, even though we were playing against 10 men.  Adomah made a big difference when he came on because he got much higher up the pitch.
Isn't this just because he starts with the defence deep and never condenses space. There is no pressing the ball.
So we rarely win the ball high up the pitch.
This is the Bruce way.

That's the most frustrating thing about Bruce every single match, the lack of pressing.The lack of any pressure just hands the initiative to the other team giving them momentum, confidence and time and space to create. I could understand it a little  against a very good team, but we should never ever do that in the championship with our current squad.

Last season I watched Burnley very effectively press and then drop then press again. The whole team looked really well drilled and ......oh yeah I've just realised they have a half decent coach.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6103 on: September 14, 2017, 02:51:12 PM »
he sticks a young lad up front on his own while the rest of the team are 40 yards away . insane

This is the biggest problem for me and it's pretty easy to see so I can't work out how he's not addressing it.

If you go to something like this - https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1192362/Live/England-Championship-2017-2018-Aston-Villa-Middlesbrough - and look at the heatmaps you can see where the play was centred.  If you untick everyoe and then select 1 player at a time it becomes really clear that the only midfielder who got near to Davis was Hourihane, even though we were playing against 10 men.  Adomah made a big difference when he came on because he got much higher up the pitch.
Isn't this just because he starts with the defence deep and never condenses space. There is no pressing the ball.
So we rarely win the ball high up the pitch.
This is the Bruce way.

pretty much, he plays the defence deep and doesn't like a gap in front of them so the midfield have to be deeper all 5 of the midfielders to help in defence which pushes them into their own 3rd regularly.  However I purposely picked the last game to show (rather than Cardiff for example which was very similar) because it was against 10 and yet we still didn't get players up around the box because we were still scared of the counter attack.  Some people will blame the players, which is fair enough, but I put that down, in the main, to them being drilled with a fear of losing and not with a need to win.  Even the Wyness interview said the Bruce is scared of losing and that backs up what we're seeing. For me, after about 6months, a team starts to reflects the personality of the manager.  Bruce is nice but overly cautious and fearful and that's what we get.  Sherwood was positive and passionate but dumb as a stump and that's what we got.

Online tomd2103

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #6104 on: September 14, 2017, 03:06:04 PM »
he sticks a young lad up front on his own while the rest of the team are 40 yards away . insane

This is the biggest problem for me and it's pretty easy to see so I can't work out how he's not addressing it.

If you go to something like this - https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1192362/Live/England-Championship-2017-2018-Aston-Villa-Middlesbrough - and look at the heatmaps you can see where the play was centred.  If you untick everyoe and then select 1 player at a time it becomes really clear that the only midfielder who got near to Davis was Hourihane, even though we were playing against 10 men.  Adomah made a big difference when he came on because he got much higher up the pitch.
Isn't this just because he starts with the defence deep and never condenses space. There is no pressing the ball.
So we rarely win the ball high up the pitch.
This is the Bruce way.

Agree, but you need fit, athletic players to play a pressing game.  Unfortunately, we don't seem to have many of those in midfield apart from Onomah and Hourihane.