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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 327712 times)

Offline olaftab

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5820 on: September 11, 2017, 01:04:03 PM »
I'd go with de Boer. He has a way of playing and a plan. Can't be any worse really!

He's just lost 4 straight. Not exactly much of any kind of plan being demonstrated.
Yes but he has very good record in Holland and his team absolutely pummelled Burnley yesterday and were very unlucky to come away with nothing.

Offline old man villa fan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5821 on: September 11, 2017, 01:05:23 PM »
Another season in the 2nd Division over promotion?

If it means eventually going up and staying up. Yes.

I question whether we could afford to strengthen this squad sufficiently to stay up if we get promoted, without putting us into a dangerous financial position.

Another year in the Championship would be more ruinous I reckon.  We're treading on thin ice where FFP is concerned anyway, and I'd be surprised that with the sorts of contracts that the likes of McCormack and Hogan will be on that the loss of parachute money wouldn't seriously hurt us.  At least if you go up, you get a massive increase in income, and can plan wages and player acquisition expenditure accordingly.  That's a lot harder to do when you're contracted to pay player salaries for three years, but then face a massive drop in income.

The problem if we get promoted with this squad is that we will probably need five 20m (average) players.  These type of players will want contracts that favour them, with high wages and release clauses in the event of relegation.  If we still come straight back down, we could be in deep financial trouble.  The alternative is to try and make do with the expectation of relegation and just take the money plus parachute payments and then build again.  A bit like Burnley have done over the past couple of seasons.

I think we are between a rock and a hard place due to, what I believe to be, poor selling/recruitment policy by Bruce.

Offline Gregorys Boy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5822 on: September 11, 2017, 01:06:13 PM »
I thought at the time RDM had been unlucky with missed chances up front and silly mistakes at the back. I didn't really have a problem with our performances. He deserved more time. I thought that then and still do now. Admittedly I was pleased we got Bruce. Ironically, the fact Dr T may think he got rid of RDM too quickly could be what is keeping Bruce in a job.

Agree that RDM should have been given a bit longer (11 games is nothing really).  Disagree that he was just unlucky due to us missing chances.  If you look at our dreadful performance in that famous Preston game, you can see that the team are just poorly set up and have no spine.  Preston played through us at will without needing to get out of second gear.  We had no shape.  Another thing that did for RDM was that we spent so much money that summer.  A bit more of a modest budget might have given him a bit longer to get his feet under the table.

I think he quite clearly panicked against Preston (probably because he feared for his job) but before that game we'd generally been good for 80-85 minutes and it was a mental weakness that seemed to keep turning wins into draws and draws into defeats.  If (and it's a big one) he'd got a run of 3-4 wins on the bounce at some point I think we'd have improved massively.

I do understand why he was sacked and I understood (but didn't agree with) the choice of replacement but as I said at the time, and have never changed my view on, the only point in going for someone like Bruce was if he could turn things around quickly and get us into the playoffs and that's what he should have been judged on. As soon as it became clear he couldn't deliver that we should have started planning for a manager to start the proper rebuilding process.

We could've realistically started that in February even if the manager change didn't happen until later.  All we really did by giving him the summer and delaying things was put ourselves into a position where we would need his inevitable replacement to hit the ground running with no options to add the squad for months and limit our options because managers don't like to leave clubs early in the season.

That's fair.  I just never thought RDM was the right appointment and IMO he never would have turned it around.  Normally I think a new manger should get at least a full season.  But think maybe this was a exception.  Think Tony reliased he'd made the wrong appointment and that we were only heading one way.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5823 on: September 11, 2017, 01:07:36 PM »
The thing I found strange with RDM was that he just gave the impression in interviews and through his body language that he wasn't particularly interested.  Although we had been relegated, there was quite a bit of optimism around and he got a fair bit of money to spend.  I expected him to be motivated and enthusiastic, but he appeared anything but that.   

I suspect that's why so many fans turned on him so quickly.  I also suspect that it's just the way he is, I'd never seen him looking particularly animated anywhere else, either as a manager or when he was interviewed as a player.  I seem to remember him being very drab after he scored the cup winner against us for example.

Offline ozzjim

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5824 on: September 11, 2017, 01:09:25 PM »
Well Bruce has had a full season with a good squad and got us to exactly where we started.

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5825 on: September 11, 2017, 01:10:49 PM »
Well Bruce has had a full season with a good squad and got us to exactly where we started.
Stability is a wonderful thing.

Offline Legion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5826 on: September 11, 2017, 01:30:35 PM »
Mr Consistent.

Offline pauliewalnuts

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5827 on: September 11, 2017, 01:39:51 PM »
Strong and stable.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5828 on: September 11, 2017, 01:46:24 PM »
As before stability is fine when things are moving in the right direction, as soon as that's not the case it becomes stubbornness instead and that's far less desirable.

I think we're firmly into the realms of Wyness not wanting to be proven wrong now rather than any realistic hope that we're suddenly going to turn things around.

Offline lovejoy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5829 on: September 11, 2017, 01:47:13 PM »
You can't vote no surely? No manager realistically has beyond Christmas do they?

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5830 on: September 11, 2017, 01:54:04 PM »
You can't vote no surely? No manager realistically has beyond Christmas do they?

I'd assume that's people who don't want him to go immediately but don't know what it will take to make them want him out so can't set deadlines/targets.  That probably accounts for a lot of people, I'd think that most people who've said give him until Christmas or the end of September actually thinks he deserves to be sacked but wants to give him a chance but I suspect 2-3 defeats this month will see almost all of those people turn against him regardless of what they've voted.

Offline tomd2103

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5831 on: September 11, 2017, 03:28:41 PM »
You can't vote no surely? No manager realistically has beyond Christmas do they?

I'd assume that's people who don't want him to go immediately but don't know what it will take to make them want him out so can't set deadlines/targets.  That probably accounts for a lot of people, I'd think that most people who've said give him until Christmas or the end of September actually thinks he deserves to be sacked but wants to give him a chance but I suspect 2-3 defeats this month will see almost all of those people turn against him regardless of what they've voted.

He's been here for nearly a year now and on the evidence we have see over that period, I just can't see how he is going to improve things.  I'm guessing his usual "go-to" in times of difficulty is 3-5-2, but we have been horrendous on the few occasions he has tried it here so I can't see that as a viable option. 

I really can't see us achieving any more than mid-table mediocrity under him.     

Offline Ads

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5832 on: September 11, 2017, 03:37:22 PM »
We have won one game, Norwich, without Jedinak since he signed.

I am looking forward to the return of the Jedi.

Offline sid1964

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5833 on: September 11, 2017, 05:02:10 PM »
the problem for the club is and this has been the case with every manager who has left (apart from Garde, who was not allowed to sign anyone) we are going to be left with a lot of Bruce buys who the new manager may not want, and we are going to be left with players who will just hang around collecting their wages, until they RETIRE!


Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5834 on: September 11, 2017, 05:11:42 PM »
the problem for the club is and this has been the case with every manager who has left (apart from Garde, who was not allowed to sign anyone) we are going to be left with a lot of Bruce buys who the new manager may not want, and we are going to be left with players who will just hang around collecting their wages, until they RETIRE!

Which is exactly why taking a short-term 'pragmatic' choice to employ someone like Bruce and delay the 'villa engine' stuff is so stupid.