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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 324972 times)

Online cdbullyweefan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5505 on: September 08, 2017, 12:04:11 PM »
It's very easy not to castigate players without reaching a Comical Ali level of ignoring reality.

Offline TheTimVilla

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5506 on: September 08, 2017, 12:07:02 PM »
When I'm speaking to customers after a server crash which has cost them hours without the system and lost work I regularly tell them that it was only a problem for a few minutes turning it off and on again didn't work and that they should have paid for additional software, so ultimately, its their fault, but we will let them off.

Never apologize, never admit fault, but then I work in an industry where you get it wrong, you lose your career and where my client base is not captive.

Castigating professional adults is idiotic. They know they've fucked up, you explain it, you discuss improvements and you gee them up so they don't dwell and spiral. Learn from defeat, don't wallow in it.

The stupid edit aside (he works in IT he probably just turns things off and on, hurr hurr), "never apologise, never admit fault" is a really out of date attitude in most professions and particularly in anything customer service/comms related which is what these press briefings really are.  If you fuck up own it and learn from it, don't try to bullshit around it if there is evidence to prove you wrong.  You find plenty of examples where taking blame and then doing something about it is far more effective than trying to sweep it away.

Our company policy is empathise but don't apologise or admit fault.

Offline Ads

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5507 on: September 08, 2017, 12:14:19 PM »
When I'm speaking to customers after a server crash which has cost them hours without the system and lost work I regularly tell them that it was only a problem for a few minutes turning it off and on again didn't work and that they should have paid for additional software, so ultimately, its their fault, but we will let them off.

Never apologize, never admit fault, but then I work in an industry where you get it wrong, you lose your career and where my client base is not captive.

Castigating professional adults is idiotic. They know they've fucked up, you explain it, you discuss improvements and you gee them up so they don't dwell and spiral. Learn from defeat, don't wallow in it.

The stupid edit aside (he works in IT he probably just turns things off and on, hurr hurr), "never apologise, never admit fault" is a really out of date attitude in most professions and particularly in anything customer service/comms related which is what these press briefings really are.  If you fuck up own it and learn from it, don't try to bullshit around it if there is evidence to prove you wrong.  You find plenty of examples where taking blame and then doing something about it is far more effective than trying to sweep it away.

Most people I know in IT have some self deprecating humour about the power that rests in a re-boot. You're just a crashing bore it would seem.

We work in different industries and its not really relevant as my first point and the only one I really care to keep talking about, was about management and morale. I don't have to make my team "own the blame" or any other vomit inducing Americanisms you care to drop. I'm sure the players did not need to do this either. Professional's will be wise enough to know when they've made a mistake or their performance has dipped, so the why and the what next is far more important than beating them around the bonce with it weeks after the event. Unless its a running joke of course, in which case that would improve morale as well. You know, jokes, light hearted comments. That sort of thing.


Online paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5508 on: September 08, 2017, 12:15:14 PM »
When I'm speaking to customers after a server crash which has cost them hours without the system and lost work I regularly tell them that it was only a problem for a few minutes turning it off and on again didn't work and that they should have paid for additional software, so ultimately, its their fault, but we will let them off.

Never apologize, never admit fault, but then I work in an industry where you get it wrong, you lose your career and where my client base is not captive.

Castigating professional adults is idiotic. They know they've fucked up, you explain it, you discuss improvements and you gee them up so they don't dwell and spiral. Learn from defeat, don't wallow in it.

The stupid edit aside (he works in IT he probably just turns things off and on, hurr hurr), "never apologise, never admit fault" is a really out of date attitude in most professions and particularly in anything customer service/comms related which is what these press briefings really are.  If you fuck up own it and learn from it, don't try to bullshit around it if there is evidence to prove you wrong.  You find plenty of examples where taking blame and then doing something about it is far more effective than trying to sweep it away.

Our company policy is empathise but don't apologise or admit fault.

For us that also generally holds true unless everyone knows it was our fault and wants an explanation.  being humiliated by a Warnock team falls into the explain how you're reacting to it category for me.

Online kippaxvilla2

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5509 on: September 08, 2017, 12:22:08 PM »
He also knows and likes Dean Smith, the Bees boss who supported Villa as a kid and will be ‘desperate to turn us over’, Bruce expects.

Another one of the cliches that Risso oh so loves.

Offline Ads

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5510 on: September 08, 2017, 12:25:01 PM »
When I'm speaking to customers after a server crash which has cost them hours without the system and lost work I regularly tell them that it was only a problem for a few minutes turning it off and on again didn't work and that they should have paid for additional software, so ultimately, its their fault, but we will let them off.

Never apologize, never admit fault, but then I work in an industry where you get it wrong, you lose your career and where my client base is not captive.

Castigating professional adults is idiotic. They know they've fucked up, you explain it, you discuss improvements and you gee them up so they don't dwell and spiral. Learn from defeat, don't wallow in it.

The stupid edit aside (he works in IT he probably just turns things off and on, hurr hurr), "never apologise, never admit fault" is a really out of date attitude in most professions and particularly in anything customer service/comms related which is what these press briefings really are.  If you fuck up own it and learn from it, don't try to bullshit around it if there is evidence to prove you wrong.  You find plenty of examples where taking blame and then doing something about it is far more effective than trying to sweep it away.

Our company policy is empathise but don't apologise or admit fault.

Bosses in not like their employees to admit liability shocker. Well I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

Online Simon Page

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5511 on: September 08, 2017, 12:26:09 PM »
There was an inquiry at work the other day about how long it took for a story to get updated. As the nit-picking got more microscopic as various people refused to accept responsibility, or it was found there wasn't really a problem, my boss said: "Having a typo in the fourth paragraph didn't help." I immediately said: "That's my fault. Doesn't matter who wrote it, I subbed it and published it so it's on me." You'd think that would be welcome? Nah: "Well, it's not your 'fault' and anyway, it shouldn't have been there in the first place..."

"No, I had one job and I failed." Nothing more was said, which makes me think the only thing worse than a cock-up is finding the reason for it. If you know who, what and why, you have no excuse for not acting.

Offline Damo70

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5512 on: September 08, 2017, 01:05:19 PM »
It's very easy not to castigate players without reaching a Comical Ali level of ignoring reality.

I suspect a new nickname for our manager has just been found.

Offline olaftab

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5513 on: September 08, 2017, 01:14:50 PM »
Never apologize, never admit fault,
Ah haa now I understand.

Offline Risso

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5514 on: September 08, 2017, 01:16:47 PM »
It's very easy not to castigate players without reaching a Comical Ali level of ignoring reality.

Yes, and likewise nobody is asking Bruce to stand there and say, "Well, John Terry has been shit, and Emlohamady, I was expecting him to be good, but no, he's been shit, Whelan, yep, a bit shit as well, looks a right old knacker's yard reject."  Pretending we've only had one bad half of football makes him like a fool though.  We had very little of the possession against Reading, and they played us off the park.  We were abject second half against Hull, and for the entire match v Cardiff.  Pretending otherwise is moronic.

Online Drummond

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5515 on: September 08, 2017, 04:54:45 PM »
It's very easy not to castigate players without reaching a Comical Ali level of ignoring reality.

Yes, and likewise nobody is asking Bruce to stand there and say, "Well, John Terry has been shit, and Emlohamady, I was expecting him to be good, but no, he's been shit, Whelan, yep, a bit shit as well, looks a right old knacker's yard reject."  Pretending we've only had one bad half of football makes him like a fool though.  We had very little of the possession against Reading, and they played us off the park.  We were abject second half against Hull, and for the entire match v Cardiff.  Pretending otherwise is moronic.

"Everything went wrong apart from the first 20 minutes. We made a bad mistake for the first goal and after that it was on the verge of embarrassing at times. It was a rude awakening for us. We didn't do the basics well and we looked fragile. Overall, it was a difficult afternoon.

"We have to do more. We are Aston Villa and we come with a big reputation. But away from home we have to be aware of what's coming. There were two decent chances at 0-0, but we didn't take them. It's one of the biggest defeats I've had in the Championship, we lost all our shape and balance."

He didn't pretend otherwise at the time. But why dwell on it weeks later? What's the point?

Online Mister E

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5516 on: September 08, 2017, 05:27:38 PM »
On the other side of the coin, it could make players feel that substandard performances are acceptable.

Realistically though, I wouldn't expect players to take much notice of what he says in interviews. They hear his thoughts in the dressing room and at the training ground anyway.

I understand that these interviews are a contractual obligation, but if they do serve a purpose, it's to communicate with the fans. We don't get to hear what's said behind closed doors.

He should perhaps be more mindful of what he says in them. Not so much in this instance but when he is dismissing nearly a season's worth of disappointment under his stewardship as the meanderings of "idiots", he risks alienating fans. O'Leary wasn't the worst manager we had, in terms of results, but may well have been the most hated. That was largely down to his conduct when somebody shoved a microphone in front of him.
The critical bit for the players is that the manager shows consistency in what he's saying. It's when he starts criticising the players in public when saying it differently in private that the trust is eroded.

Online Clampy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5517 on: September 08, 2017, 05:42:11 PM »
I've read his press conference on the OS. He's wrong about Cardiff, we were awful. If it hadn't been for Johnstone, it would have been a lot worse and we only really started playing in the last ten minutes against Reading. Other than that like he said, we've been ok

Offline Risso

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5518 on: September 08, 2017, 06:08:28 PM »
It's very easy not to castigate players without reaching a Comical Ali level of ignoring reality.

Yes, and likewise nobody is asking Bruce to stand there and say, "Well, John Terry has been shit, and Emlohamady, I was expecting him to be good, but no, he's been shit, Whelan, yep, a bit shit as well, looks a right old knacker's yard reject."  Pretending we've only had one bad half of football makes him like a fool though.  We had very little of the possession against Reading, and they played us off the park.  We were abject second half against Hull, and for the entire match v Cardiff.  Pretending otherwise is moronic.

"Everything went wrong apart from the first 20 minutes. We made a bad mistake for the first goal and after that it was on the verge of embarrassing at times. It was a rude awakening for us. We didn't do the basics well and we looked fragile. Overall, it was a difficult afternoon.

"We have to do more. We are Aston Villa and we come with a big reputation. But away from home we have to be aware of what's coming. There were two decent chances at 0-0, but we didn't take them. It's one of the biggest defeats I've had in the Championship, we lost all our shape and balance."

He didn't pretend otherwise at the time. But why dwell on it weeks later? What's the point?

Because the manager said something that was blatantly untrue.

Online paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5519 on: September 08, 2017, 07:04:23 PM »
I've read his press conference on the OS. He's wrong about Cardiff, we were awful. If it hadn't been for Johnstone, it would have been a lot worse and we only really started playing in the last ten minutes against Reading. Other than that like he said, we've been ok

That's the point really, he himself called Cardiff correctly in the post match presser and everyone who's seen any of it knows what happened so saying it was a 'bad half' is an odd thing to do and Risso rightly called it as such.  He didn't need to mention it at all so to choose to bring it up and then change your own view of it like he did deserves comment.

One of the comments from the Wyness interview was how open and honest Bruce is but this makes that questionable, to an extent.