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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 317063 times)

Online ktvillan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5190 on: August 29, 2017, 09:07:07 AM »
If we aren't in the top 6 by October, or very very close to it, I think it's a fair sign he's not up to the job.  He can bullshit all he wants about "one win changes everything", it doesn't and it hasn't.   We're still averaging only a point a game and are just off the bottom 6.  It's nowhere near enough with that squad. 

As for possession it's all about the quality and type of possession.  Spain/Barcelona stopped the other team playing by just keeping the ball, and it was probing forward thinking possession geared up to an end product.  Lambert's risible attempt consisted of passing the ball sideways and backwards for 5 minutes, before conceding possession and watching the opposition zip up the pitch and score.  And then, after yet another defeat,  trying to use the possession stats as an indication he was doing something right.  What a clown.  My concern with Villa is that it is more a reflection of our inability to pass, move and keep possession rather than any intention to stand off and let the other team have the ball in their own half and not worry too much about it.  We might get away with that for the most part in the Championship but better teams can murder you with that kind of weakness.

Online paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5191 on: August 29, 2017, 09:34:47 AM »
I think tempo is more important than possession but is also something that is easier to control with more of the ball so high possession makes it simpler to do good things.

We are ponderous and slow in attack, other than sparks of brilliance, that needs to be addressed if we're going to regularly score the goals we need.

Defensively we need to be able to slow teams down when they build up a head of steam, there's a few ways to do that but we're not great at any of them (although the run of scoring after we concede is a positive in the last few games).

On top of, as above, our basic skills let us down way too often for the quality we have in the squad.

Online boozey182

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5192 on: August 29, 2017, 10:27:47 AM »
The start to this season has very much epitomised Bruce's whole tenure. Personally, I don't think he's done enough to convince he's the man to get us promoted, but he also hasn't quite been bad enough to justify getting the boot. It's the worst situation really; if we need to get a replacement we need to get it done before we're too far adrift, but if he's going to take us up, he needed to get off to a flyer and get everyone behind him. He's done neither. Which is why arguments on both sides have valid points.

Now we go into a month where we'll probably know whether he's cut out for the job. If he's not, though, will we be too far behind to do anything about it?

It's been the most frustrating start imaginable. Perversely, that victory over Norwich might end up being our worst result so far in the long term. Having said that, we might also be able to point to it in two months time as the turning point.

There, is that wishy-washy enough?

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5193 on: August 29, 2017, 10:45:54 AM »
The opportunity to prove himself is there for him in September. If he doesn't take it he has no excuses available to him.

On paper at least he couldn't ask for an easier month. Time to build some momentum and finally get the season on track. No excuses.

Offline Damo70

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5194 on: August 29, 2017, 10:53:34 AM »
Personally, I don't think he's done enough to convince he's the man to get us promoted, but he also hasn't quite been bad enough to justify getting the boot.


That sums up exactly how I feel at the moment.




Online Bren'd

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5195 on: August 29, 2017, 11:20:02 AM »
He's got 11 days to prepare for the game against Brentford so we need to see not just a convincing victory but a formation and style of play that will allow us to go on and win 5 of the 6 league games we play in the month. No excuses now Mr Bruce.

Offline AVH87

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5196 on: August 29, 2017, 11:33:48 AM »
The most frustrating thing with his tenure is we are always in this 'wait and see' position. When he came in we hoped he'd get us into the play-offs, we got nowhere near. Then it was 'wait and see when he's had a pre-season/got his own players in' here we are with Terry, Whelan, Elmo, etc. and currently 2 wins short of what the other sides in the top 6 have as a minimum. Now we are in a wait and see position with regards a busy month in September. If he doesn't deliver he will be sent on his way I'm sure, which would be the exact same crossroads we found ourselves at 12 months ago (looking for a new manager in October).

Offline villasjf

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5197 on: August 29, 2017, 11:49:52 AM »
If and that's a big if he gets us promoted most of his signings will not be good enough for the premier league and his team selection and tactics or lack of them will see us become a yoyo club.

Offline old man villa fan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5198 on: August 29, 2017, 11:55:55 AM »
The start to this season has very much epitomised Bruce's whole tenure. Personally, I don't think he's done enough to convince he's the man to get us promoted, but he also hasn't quite been bad enough to justify getting the boot. It's the worst situation really; if we need to get a replacement we need to get it done before we're too far adrift, but if he's going to take us up, he needed to get off to a flyer and get everyone behind him. He's done neither. Which is why arguments on both sides have valid points.

Now we go into a month where we'll probably know whether he's cut out for the job. If he's not, though, will we be too far behind to do anything about it?

It's been the most frustrating start imaginable. Perversely, that victory over Norwich might end up being our worst result so far in the long term. Having said that, we might also be able to point to it in two months time as the turning point.

There, is that wishy-washy enough?

I agree that we are in 'no mans land' at the moment. Bruce needs to be given the next 6 league matches (unless it goes absolutely tits up in the first couple) to judge.  We have to be in the top six if we have any chance of automatic promotion.  Once the Club decided at the end of last season it was all aboard Bruce's ship (I was against it), a mediocre start was always going to get him to October.  As you say, the start to the season is probably the worst position for decisions.

As I said above, if we are not top six, I would be looking to change and trying for a late charge at the play-offs but with a complete change in style and a view to changing players at Xmas.  The change would be geared for next season but with an outside chance for this season.  The worst possible situation would be sticking with Bruce but not achieving promotion, however close as we would be throwing everything at a preseason next summer.

Online itbrvilla

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5199 on: August 29, 2017, 12:05:47 PM »
The start to this season has very much epitomised Bruce's whole tenure. Personally, I don't think he's done enough to convince he's the man to get us promoted, but he also hasn't quite been bad enough to justify getting the boot. It's the worst situation really; if we need to get a replacement we need to get it done before we're too far adrift, but if he's going to take us up, he needed to get off to a flyer and get everyone behind him. He's done neither. Which is why arguments on both sides have valid points.

Now we go into a month where we'll probably know whether he's cut out for the job. If he's not, though, will we be too far behind to do anything about it?

It's been the most frustrating start imaginable. Perversely, that victory over Norwich might end up being our worst result so far in the long term. Having said that, we might also be able to point to it in two months time as the turning point.

There, is that wishy-washy enough?

I agree that we are in 'no mans land' at the moment. Bruce needs to be given the next 6 league matches (unless it goes absolutely tits up in the first couple) to judge.  We have to be in the top six if we have any chance of automatic promotion.  Once the Club decided at the end of last season it was all aboard Bruce's ship (I was against it), a mediocre start was always going to get him to October.  As you say, the start to the season is probably the worst position for decisions.

As I said above, if we are not top six, I would be looking to change and trying for a late charge at the play-offs but with a complete change in style and a view to changing players at Xmas.  The change would be geared for next season but with an outside chance for this season.  The worst possible situation would be sticking with Bruce but not achieving promotion, however close as we would be throwing everything at a preseason next summer.
Don't worry, Wyness has got this under control, he's a football man after all.

Offline wittonwarrior

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5200 on: August 29, 2017, 12:37:51 PM »
Sack Bruce and what next. Any board chess player will look several moves ahead.  Moyes, mon, Keane, frank de boar even mcclaren No No No. I'm happy to stick with what we hold already. Besides we can't be changing managers like forest or Leeds

Offline Drummond

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5201 on: August 29, 2017, 12:40:23 PM »
The most frustrating thing with his tenure is we are always in this 'wait and see' position. When he came in we hoped he'd get us into the play-offs, we got nowhere near. Then it was 'wait and see when he's had a pre-season/got his own players in' here we are with Terry, Whelan, Elmo, etc. and currently 2 wins short of what the other sides in the top 6 have as a minimum. Now we are in a wait and see position with regards a busy month in September. If he doesn't deliver he will be sent on his way I'm sure, which would be the exact same crossroads we found ourselves at 12 months ago (looking for a new manager in October).

I don't think that the pre-season/his own players scenario and the wait for September scenario are mutually exclusive though.

But September, on paper at least, is a month in which we should be doing well. There's nothing at all in the schedule that suggests anything other than going for wins in each game, albeit perhaps accepting an occasional draw.

Offline old man villa fan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5202 on: August 29, 2017, 12:42:01 PM »
The start to this season has very much epitomised Bruce's whole tenure. Personally, I don't think he's done enough to convince he's the man to get us promoted, but he also hasn't quite been bad enough to justify getting the boot. It's the worst situation really; if we need to get a replacement we need to get it done before we're too far adrift, but if he's going to take us up, he needed to get off to a flyer and get everyone behind him. He's done neither. Which is why arguments on both sides have valid points.

Now we go into a month where we'll probably know whether he's cut out for the job. If he's not, though, will we be too far behind to do anything about it?

It's been the most frustrating start imaginable. Perversely, that victory over Norwich might end up being our worst result so far in the long term. Having said that, we might also be able to point to it in two months time as the turning point.

There, is that wishy-washy enough?

I agree that we are in 'no mans land' at the moment. Bruce needs to be given the next 6 league matches (unless it goes absolutely tits up in the first couple) to judge.  We have to be in the top six if we have any chance of automatic promotion.  Once the Club decided at the end of last season it was all aboard Bruce's ship (I was against it), a mediocre start was always going to get him to October.  As you say, the start to the season is probably the worst position for decisions.

As I said above, if we are not top six, I would be looking to change and trying for a late charge at the play-offs but with a complete change in style and a view to changing players at Xmas.  The change would be geared for next season but with an outside chance for this season.  The worst possible situation would be sticking with Bruce but not achieving promotion, however close as we would be throwing everything at a preseason next summer.
Don't worry, Wyness has got this under control, he's a football man after all.

At times, I think that can be a problem rather than a solution.  Too much of football thinking within the game is based on the 'not so magic' formula of A+B+C= success.  In reality not quite A plus not quite B plus C equals failure.

Online paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5203 on: August 29, 2017, 01:03:12 PM »
The most frustrating thing with his tenure is we are always in this 'wait and see' position. When he came in we hoped he'd get us into the play-offs, we got nowhere near. Then it was 'wait and see when he's had a pre-season/got his own players in' here we are with Terry, Whelan, Elmo, etc. and currently 2 wins short of what the other sides in the top 6 have as a minimum. Now we are in a wait and see position with regards a busy month in September. If he doesn't deliver he will be sent on his way I'm sure, which would be the exact same crossroads we found ourselves at 12 months ago (looking for a new manager in October).

I don't think that the pre-season/his own players scenario and the wait for September scenario are mutually exclusive though.

But September, on paper at least, is a month in which we should be doing well. There's nothing at all in the schedule that suggests anything other than going for wins in each game, albeit perhaps accepting an occasional draw.

Over the summer I wanted him to be given until the end of September which would be a full year in the job.  The main thing I wanted to see in the 10-11 games was a decent number of points (17-18) and evidence that he was at least trying to address the obvious problems that had been there for most of his time with us.

After 3 games I didn't think he was going to be able to deliver either of those (a view that most on here shared given the poll on this thread).  Then we played Norwich and took a couple of steps forward before he took a big step back with his selection on Friday.  Right now we're further forward than we were after Reading but not enough for him to meet those 2 targets, he needs a big upturn in September because if we get to the end of next month with less that 17-18 points then our chances of automatic promotion will start to look pretty poor and that can't be allowed.  We need to go up and our standards and expectations have to be so high as to insist on that.

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #5204 on: August 29, 2017, 01:22:27 PM »
He's got 11 days to prepare for the game against Brentford so we need to see not just a convincing victory but a formation and style of play that will allow us to go on and win 5 of the 6 league games we play in the month. No excuses now Mr Bruce.

The excuse is already written. He has 11 players away on international duty and only has 22 players to work with.