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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 320051 times)

Offline Ad@m

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4905 on: August 24, 2017, 12:22:14 PM »
With the resources at his disposal and the time he has been given, he should be going into every game expecting to win.



I'm sure Barcelona and Real Madrid expect to win every game as well but they don't.

They probably win more than half a dozen away games a season though.

Well they would do, Barcelona have had Messi, Suarez and Neymar playing for them up front. Like I said, they expect to win every game, but they don't. We're not quite in a position to be expecting to win every game.

I think we are, or at least we should be.

Of course we won't actually win them all but we should be going in to them with the mentality that we will, if the team applies itself correctly. 

For too long the mentality around Aston Villa has been one of, "as long as we don't lose it's a job well done" - 10 years ago that was games against, Man U and Arsenal, then it started to include Liverpool and Everton, then most of the Prem and I'll be fucked if it starts to include shit heaps like Bristol City.

We should go down there tomorrow thinking "this lot are crap - the only unknown about tonight's match is how many we'll win by" and get about them accordingly.

Offline itbrvilla

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4906 on: August 24, 2017, 12:28:54 PM »
History says that manager needs at least a year (1, or 2 seasons?) to get his squad together and said squad to gel.

Which part of history are you quoting?

The only one who has got that far recently is Lambert. How good did we look after he'd been given time to get his squad together and gelling?
And surely during that time there should be obvious improvements, not that after 1-2 years everything suddenly works overnight!

Offline john e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4907 on: August 24, 2017, 12:33:07 PM »
History says that manager needs at least a year (1, or 2 seasons?) to get his squad together and said squad to gel.

Which part of history are you quoting?

The only one who has got that far recently is Lambert. How good did we look after he'd been given time to get his squad together and gelling?

No, fine but we kept appointing bad managers.  But Bruce is a step up on those managers and most Villa fans were happy when we appointed him.  He's been at Villa park for less than a year.  Considering the hot mess he took over, its far too early to be calling for his head. 

Bruce is not a step up
if anything he is more of the same

Offline andyh

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4908 on: August 24, 2017, 12:36:33 PM »
I am sick of hearing him banging on about a crisis after 'one bad week', it's not 'one bad week' but hey-ho, if he has turned a corner let's hope it's continues.

Offline Gregorys Boy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4909 on: August 24, 2017, 12:47:01 PM »
RDM was the exception not the rule.  It was so clear from such a early stage that he was out of his depth and the wrong appointment.  But in most cases the manager should be given at least a whole season.  We can't keep choping and changing managers.  Its not working for us.  It means another drastic change to the squad another change in the direction of the club.  If we finish 12th this season then I'll accept that Bruce should go. 

And let's be realistic the Championship is a tough league.  Our slow start to life at this level is partly because of the mess the club was in at the time.  Newcastle were prepared for Championship life, we weren't.  Its that simple. 

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4910 on: August 24, 2017, 12:51:19 PM »
Newcastle had a manager who knew what he was doing, we don't.
So you are prepared to write off another season, what do you think the chances are we will recover from that?

Offline Clampy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4911 on: August 24, 2017, 12:54:49 PM »
 
Newcastle had a manager who knew what he was doing, we don't.
 

He's got 4 promotions under his belt, so he obviously does.

Offline TheMalandro

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4912 on: August 24, 2017, 12:55:04 PM »
He's admitted he's hopeful about Snodgrass and also that he's interested in the Arsenal chain smoker.

I really don't understand his squad building. He's going to have a few very unhappy players.

Offline john e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4913 on: August 24, 2017, 12:55:23 PM »
RDM was the exception not the rule.  It was so clear from such a early stage that he was out of his depth and the wrong appointment.  But in most cases the manager should be given at least a whole season.  We can't keep choping and changing managers.  Its not working for us.  It means another drastic change to the squad another change in the direction of the club.  If we finish 12th this season then I'll accept that Bruce should go. 

And let's be realistic the Championship is a tough league.  Our slow start to life at this level is partly because of the mess the club was in at the time.  Newcastle were prepared for Championship life, we weren't.  Its that simple. 

you really are Talking nonsense here
you clearly saw that RDM was out of his depth early on, a manager who achieved more in a short space of time than Bruce will ever do in his whole career

I'm not arguing that he should have been given longer I'm saying it's so hypocritical of people to say RDM should have been dumped but we have to give Bruce more time after 10 months of rubbish apart from one decent game

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4914 on: August 24, 2017, 01:05:29 PM »
Newcastle had a manager who knew what he was doing, we don't.
 

He's got 4 promotions under his belt, so he obviously does.
The last 10 months suggests otherwise.

Offline Sexual Ealing

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4915 on: August 24, 2017, 01:09:32 PM »
RDM was the exception not the rule.  It was so clear from such a early stage that he was out of his depth and the wrong appointment.  But in most cases the manager should be given at least a whole season.  We can't keep choping and changing managers.  Its not working for us.  It means another drastic change to the squad another change in the direction of the club.  If we finish 12th this season then I'll accept that Bruce should go. 

And let's be realistic the Championship is a tough league.  Our slow start to life at this level is partly because of the mess the club was in at the time.  Newcastle were prepared for Championship life, we weren't.  Its that simple. 

I'm not getting at you specifically, GB, but the highlighted bit grinds my gears about football in this country. We have, by common consent, got a more than adequate squad to be where we need to be. If that's the case why does each new manager need to go on a shopping spree?

Get the right one in and tell him to manage.

Offline Ads

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4916 on: August 24, 2017, 01:11:58 PM »
He's admitted he's hopeful about Snodgrass and also that he's interested in the Arsenal chain smoker.

I really don't understand his squad building. He's going to have a few very unhappy players.

We need ALL THE MIDFIELDERS!!!!!

Offline London Villan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4917 on: August 24, 2017, 01:14:03 PM »
Is he mates with a particular agent??

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4918 on: August 24, 2017, 01:15:24 PM »
Is he mates with a particular agent??
They all are, it's one big happy family.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4919 on: August 24, 2017, 01:26:08 PM »
No! Grow up, this how we've got in such a mess.  History says that manager needs at least a year (1, or 2 seasons?) to get his squad together and said squad to gel.  We will judge Bruce this season.  The few league games have not impressed me too much, but we have four points and there are promising signs.  If we are struggling in mid-table come Christmas then there is a strong case for a change.  But if we are in the mix (play-off or top two), then I think we need to give him the rest of the season at least.

The reason we got into a mess is nothing to do with it, it's that we had no plan for what we expected a manager to do other than get the results to stay up/get promotion.  If your planning begins and ends with the manager then you get the constant transition and clusterfuck squad (or as you put it the period to get the squad together and for it to gel) that we've seen but that is no argument against sacking managers who are failing, it's an argument in favour of having a club ethos and competent board.

Historically managers needed longer because they ran the football side and the chairman/owner ran the commercial side but that's been out of date for about 20 years and we're a dinosaur club who've refused to evolve which is why we've largely insisted on dinosaur managers who still want a level of autonomy that has no place in high end modern football.

Time in the job doesn't really matter and nor do previous roles, any manager should, just like anyone in any other business, have specific targets and be judged against those.  As I've said no one will ever convince me that Bruce was appointed with a view that finishing in the bottom half would be acceptable and I have no idea why Wyness decided to allow it to be acceptable at the end of last season.  For whatever reason they've shown a vast amount of patience with Bruce compared to RDM (who had a much harder job in terms of fixing mentality and needing to gel his squad) and he now needs to justify that or we're going to be stuck down here for another year.  I hope he does and he makes all of the negative posts from the last few weeks go away but 1 win in the league and a cup win against a league 1 reserve team is nothing more than a start.