collapse

Please donate to help keep this site going.

* The Fanzine

Heroes & Villains Fanzine



Get your fix of all things Claret & Blue by subscribing to the online version!

Recent Posts

Re: Short term - back up to Davis by Breezeblock
[Today at 09:12:49 AM]


Re: Short term - back up to Davis by Dave
[Today at 09:06:36 AM]


Re: The All-New Patronise The Plucky Little Neighbours Thread. by Damo70
[Today at 08:49:00 AM]


Re: Bruce out? by Ads
[Today at 08:42:59 AM]


Re: Keinan Davis by Ads
[Today at 08:41:26 AM]

Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 320490 times)

Online rob_bridge

  • coach
  • *
  • Posts: 5641
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Birmingham
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4890 on: August 24, 2017, 06:33:44 AM »
There was no excuse whatsoever for the bilge served up in the first 3 league games.

None.

Let's see how he approaches Friday and how he responds to the game situation.

It's what he gets paid for

Online Clampy

  • prolific poster
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 20134
  • Location: warley
  • GM : PCM
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4891 on: August 24, 2017, 06:48:30 AM »
With the resources at his disposal and the time he has been given, he should be going into every game expecting to win.



I'm sure Barcelona and Real Madrid expect to win every game as well but they don't.

They probably win more than half a dozen away games a season though.

Well they would do, Barcelona have had Messi, Suarez and Neymar playing for them up front. Like I said, they expect to win every game, but they don't. We're not quite in a position to be expecting to win every game.

Offline passitsideways

  • reserve
  • *
  • Posts: 1125
  • Location: Sydney
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4892 on: August 24, 2017, 06:56:46 AM »
With the resources at his disposal and the time he has been given, he should be going into every game expecting to win.



I'm sure Barcelona and Real Madrid expect to win every game as well but they don't.

They probably win more than half a dozen away games a season though.

Well they would do, Barcelona have had Messi, Suarez and Neymar playing for them up front. Like I said, they expect to win every game, but they don't. We're not quite in a position to be expecting to win every game.

Of course not, but if we want promotion, and with the quality available in the squad, and the general mediocrity of the vast majority of this league, we should be expecting to win at least a reasonably high number of away games, and the vast majority of our home games.

Offline brian green

  • player manager
  • *
  • Posts: 10768
  • Location: Nice France
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4893 on: August 24, 2017, 07:00:28 AM »
I would be more than satisfied if the season ahead heralded our approaching every game focussing on winning it and not prioritising not losing it.

Offline cheltenhamlion

  • player manager
  • *
  • Posts: 16866
  • Location: Pedmore, Stourbridge
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4894 on: August 24, 2017, 08:26:20 AM »
I would be more than satisfied if the season ahead heralded our approaching every game focussing on winning it and not prioritising not losing it.

Yep.

Offline ez

  • coach
  • *
  • Posts: 6451
  • Location: Stratford on Avon
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4895 on: August 24, 2017, 10:27:15 AM »
There was no excuse whatsoever for the bilge served up in the first 3 league games.

None.

Let's see how he approaches Friday and how he responds to the game situation.

It's what he gets paid for

I agree about the first 3 games and his and other people's answer is it's only the first 3 games. What sort of excuse is that?

Offline aj2k77

  • coach
  • *
  • Posts: 7802
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4896 on: August 24, 2017, 10:44:48 AM »
The last 5 seasons in this division these are the number of away wins achieved by teams in the automatic positions and play off positions. On average you would say to be automatically promoted we need between 11 and 13 away wins, basically half our away games. To be in the play offs on average between 8 and 11 wins, around a third of away games. So far under Bruce we've won 4 out of 19 away games. It's ok to respect the point away but it's between a third and half of away games we are going to need to win.




Automatic promotion - Away wins

Leicester 14
Newcastle 14
Bournemouth 13
Watford 13
Hull 11
Burnley 11
Brighton 11
Burnley 11
Middlesboro 10
Cardiff 10


Play Offs - Away wins

Norwich 13
Fulham 12
Watford 12
Brentford 11
Derby 11
Middlesboro 10
Reading 10
Huddersfield 10
Wigan 9
Brighton 9
Sheff Wed 9
Brighton 9
Hull 9
Derby 9
Brighton 8
QPR 8
Ipswich 7
Sheff Wed 6
Leicester 6
Crystal P 6

Offline ChicagoLion

  • international
  • *
  • Posts: 4430
  • Location: Chicago
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4897 on: August 24, 2017, 11:16:29 AM »
The last 5 seasons in this division these are the number of away wins achieved by teams in the automatic positions and play off positions. On average you would say to be automatically promoted we need between 11 and 13 away wins, basically half our away games. To be in the play offs on average between 8 and 11 wins, around a third of away games. So far under Bruce we've won 4 out of 19 away games. It's ok to respect the point away but it's between a third and half of away games we are going to need to win.




Automatic promotion - Away wins

Leicester 14
Newcastle 14
Bournemouth 13
Watford 13
Hull 11
Burnley 11
Brighton 11
Burnley 11
Middlesboro 10
Cardiff 10


Play Offs - Away wins

Norwich 13
Fulham 12
Watford 12
Brentford 11
Derby 11
Middlesboro 10
Reading 10
Huddersfield 10
Wigan 9
Brighton 9
Sheff Wed 9
Brighton 9
Hull 9
Derby 9
Brighton 8
QPR 8
Ipswich 7
Sheff Wed 6
Leicester 6
Crystal P 6
But apparently we are not in a position to expect to win this amount of games.

Online The Edge

  • first team
  • *
  • Posts: 1484
  • Location: Birmingham
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4898 on: August 24, 2017, 11:38:13 AM »
The last 5 seasons in this division these are the number of away wins achieved by teams in the automatic positions and play off positions. On average you would say to be automatically promoted we need between 11 and 13 away wins, basically half our away games. To be in the play offs on average between 8 and 11 wins, around a third of away games. So far under Bruce we've won 4 out of 19 away games. It's ok to respect the point away but it's between a third and half of away games we are going to need to win.




Automatic promotion - Away wins

Leicester 14
Newcastle 14
Bournemouth 13
Watford 13
Hull 11
Burnley 11
Brighton 11
Burnley 11
Middlesboro 10
Cardiff 10


Play Offs - Away wins

Norwich 13
Fulham 12
Watford 12
Brentford 11
Derby 11
Middlesboro 10
Reading 10
Huddersfield 10
Wigan 9
Brighton 9
Sheff Wed 9
Brighton 9
Hull 9
Derby 9
Brighton 8
QPR 8
Ipswich 7
Sheff Wed 6
Leicester 6
Crystal P 6
But apparently we are not in a position to expect to win this amount of games.
With the squad we have now assembled and with some excellent youngsters coming through I would think an away win ratio of 50% is to be expected not hoped for at this level. Anything less will be down to bad management.  I heard Brucie on talkshite this morning repeating his point that it's a myth about him spending millions. Sorry but I don't buy it. Time to deliver.   Over to you Steve.

Offline Gregorys Boy

  • international
  • *
  • Posts: 4656
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4899 on: August 24, 2017, 11:45:18 AM »
No! Grow up, this how we've got in such a mess.  History says that manager needs at least a year (1, or 2 seasons?) to get his squad together and said squad to gel.  We will judge Bruce this season.  The few league games have not impressed me too much, but we have four points and there are promising signs.  If we are struggling in mid-table come Christmas then there is a strong case for a change.  But if we are in the mix (play-off or top two), then I think we need to give him the rest of the season at least.

Online Dave

  • Moderator
  • prolific poster
  • *
  • Posts: 29687
  • Location: Bath
  • GM : 04.11.2015
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4900 on: August 24, 2017, 11:49:33 AM »
History says that manager needs at least a year (1, or 2 seasons?) to get his squad together and said squad to gel.

Which part of history are you quoting?

The only one who has got that far recently is Lambert. How good did we look after he'd been given time to get his squad together and gelling?

Offline Gregorys Boy

  • international
  • *
  • Posts: 4656
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4901 on: August 24, 2017, 11:54:31 AM »
History says that manager needs at least a year (1, or 2 seasons?) to get his squad together and said squad to gel.

Which part of history are you quoting?

The only one who has got that far recently is Lambert. How good did we look after he'd been given time to get his squad together and gelling?

No, fine but we kept appointing bad managers.  But Bruce is a step up on those managers and most Villa fans were happy when we appointed him.  He's been at Villa park for less than a year.  Considering the hot mess he took over, its far too early to be calling for his head. 

Online Dave

  • Moderator
  • prolific poster
  • *
  • Posts: 29687
  • Location: Bath
  • GM : 04.11.2015
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4902 on: August 24, 2017, 12:04:07 PM »
History says that manager needs at least a year (1, or 2 seasons?) to get his squad together and said squad to gel.

Which part of history are you quoting?

The only one who has got that far recently is Lambert. How good did we look after he'd been given time to get his squad together and gelling?

No, fine but we kept appointing bad managers.  But Bruce is a step up on those managers and most Villa fans were happy when we appointed him.  He's been at Villa park for less than a year.  Considering the hot mess he took over, its far too early to be calling for his head.

Presumably we should have just kept Di Matteo then. He inherited the same mess, yet he doesn't get the same excuse as Bruce for some reason.

Lots of people don't think Bruce is a step up on those other managers and feel that sticking with him long term is akin to sticking with Lambert long term. Something we shouldn't have done and shouldn't do again.

I'm very happy with the last two results, but just like two defeats doesn't mean he should be sacked, two victories don't automatically mean that the concerns completely go away.

And I'm still curious which bit of history you are using for your evidence...
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 12:06:24 PM by Dave »

Online The Edge

  • first team
  • *
  • Posts: 1484
  • Location: Birmingham
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4903 on: August 24, 2017, 12:05:28 PM »
No! Grow up, this how we've got in such a mess.  History says that manager needs at least a year (1, or 2 seasons?) to get his squad together and said squad to gel.  We will judge Bruce this season.  The few league games have not impressed me too much, but we have four points and there are promising signs.  If we are struggling in mid-table come Christmas then there is a strong case for a change.  But if we are in the mix (play-off or top two), then I think we need to give him the rest of the season at least.
Grow up? What are you talking about? I didn't mention changing the manager all I said was it's time to cut out the excuses and we should be expecting to win at least 50%of
our away games with the (very expensive) squad that had been assembled. If not the buck stops with the manager. Who do you suggest we blame? The fucking tea lady?!

Online old man villa fan

  • international
  • *
  • Posts: 2883
  • Location: Birmingham
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4904 on: August 24, 2017, 12:05:58 PM »
History says that manager needs at least a year (1, or 2 seasons?) to get his squad together and said squad to gel.

Which part of history are you quoting?

The only one who has got that far recently is Lambert. How good did we look after he'd been given time to get his squad together and gelling?

No, fine but we kept appointing bad managers.  But Bruce is a step up on those managers and most Villa fans were happy when we appointed him.  He's been at Villa park for less than a year.  Considering the hot mess he took over, its far too early to be calling for his head.

People were calling for RDM's head even earlier and he took over a far bigger mess than Bruce took over.