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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 317874 times)

Offline john e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4770 on: August 20, 2017, 04:37:52 PM »
Davis looked awesome bullying the opposition like Big Ben used to
we are crying out for a hero to take his pace, I never felt Kodja did even though he scored a lot last season
so not heaping much pressure on him then just become a Holt End Legend like Lockhead, Gray, Dalian, Mcinally, Yorke, Benteke surely not to much to ask for

Offline KevinGage

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4771 on: August 20, 2017, 04:41:07 PM »
Yep.  If Bruce has said the earlier performances this season were unacceptable and we needed to freshen things up top - fair enough.  You'd say it was a bold move sticking a rookie 19 year-old up there.

But Bruce actually thought we were unlucky v Reading -which suggests that had he had one of Agbonlahor or Hogan available yesterday, he would have persisted with them instead.  Definition of insanity, and all that.

Left with no real alternatives, he made the only choice open to him.  The hope is that when the other two are available again, they don't just stroll back into the side. Neither have done anything to justify that level of faith.

Offline CT

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4772 on: August 20, 2017, 04:41:24 PM »
Slow down just a little bit John.

I for one won't be dismissing a striker who scored 19 times last season. We need him back, quickly.

But young Davis has laid a marker down and will be an important squad member from now on. If we had a "depth chart" he'd certainly be ahead of Gabby for me.

Offline Chris Smith

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4773 on: August 20, 2017, 04:55:09 PM »
I wondered when that kind of comment was going to appear.

I don't mean to pick on you, Chris (but while we're here...!), but it is fair to say that you are known for urging caution after defeats, looking at the longer-term rather than the jerking the knee after a bad day. However, it seems to me that if judging the long-term is sensible when done in a positive manner (i.e. looking for positives after losses etc.), then it strikes me as legitimate when done negatively too. I loved the match yesterday, but the fact of the result doesn't mean I have to be convinced by the style, the tactics, or the long-term trends.

It can't be judicious patience with losses but blanket joy for all wins with no discussion in the middle - that's not a consistent position, merely the opposite of some of the more ulcerous gripe-mongers we've had on here over the years. The former is probably better for you and healthier than the latter, for sure! However, it doesn't make it correct.

You said there was no pattern which I fail to see how anyone who watched the game can possibly claim such was the regularity we built off the hold up play of Davis and when there are goals scored as by a midfielder getting into shooting positions. That was the specific point of yours I was responding to but widened it to include the general negativity from some corners. Remember, how many people were predicting defeat and one or two even hoping for it. Then we go out and win comfortably, play with a touch of flair, send the fans home happy but still it is more gripes than praise on her. I realise that this is just one tiny corner of our fan base but it is the only site I visit and the grumpiness and cynicism tips over into self parody at times (in my view).

Offline olaftab

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4774 on: August 20, 2017, 04:57:27 PM »
I see no reason why both Davis and Kodjia should not play together with Elmohammdy and Hogan on bench ready to come on when plan A doesn't work.

Offline Monty

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4775 on: August 20, 2017, 05:02:47 PM »
Oh I see, no when I said 'no plan' I meant in the broader sense. It all looked a bit 'knock it up to Kevin Davies, who knocks it down to Kevin Nolan' to me. Which, like I say, is fine when it works, but doesn't inspire confidence to me.

Agree on the moan-lovers, it can get a bit pathalogical, but I do think that this needs to be separated from continuing concern for the state of the team/club/manager etc. As future manager PWS said on another thread, it's possible to enjoy the win and not believe in Bruce.

Offline ktvillan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4776 on: August 20, 2017, 05:04:17 PM »
I said earlier in the thread that Bruce's assertion that 1 win changes everything is nonsense and I stick by that.  If he can repeat that kind of attacking play and result fairly consistently over a few weeks or months then fine, but a one-off proves nothing in the context of the trail of dross that has gone before it.  Some of the selection decisions were forced upon him and happened to work well.  I'm not sure how much credit he can claim for that.  Another point of view is that it showed what the squad is capable of despite Bruce rather than because of him.  And while possession stats are misleading and not as important as some make out, in our case it does seem to reflect an inability to retain the ball even at home.   Better teams will take advantage of that.

Offline Villa75

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4777 on: August 20, 2017, 05:13:13 PM »
I think people are expecting way too much, if they think one home win against Norwich should negate months of rubbish under Bruce. That's not to mention the years of disappointment that preceded it.

I enjoyed the win. Loved it in fact. It doesn't mean that I'm not now looking towards the Bristol game with some concerns. That's what fans of an inconsistent (I'm being kind here), fragile, team do.

Once we go on a long run of consecutive victories, playing at/near our potential, you will see people a little more optimistic.

Offline KevinGage

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4778 on: August 20, 2017, 05:40:37 PM »

You would think we lost the game yesterday rather than win convincingly reading some of the almost grudging reaction on here.

Odd, as most of the posts I have seen in the post match thread and elsewhere have acclaimed what was probably our best performance to date under Bruce. I guess the fact that it has taken 10 months to deliver that level of performance might be the reason some don't automatically think everything in the garden is now rosy.

But keep on fighting the good fight against the begrudgers, Chris.  Don't let the buggers settle.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4779 on: August 20, 2017, 05:45:25 PM »
I said during pre-season that we looked at our best with a few of the kids playing together and I just saw yesterday as an extension of that.  He needs to carry on adapting it because I doubt Davis will have an easier game than that all season and Hutton really does need to be fucked off but it's the most positive performance since he's been here.

Lets see if he can do that, starting on Friday (I'm not remotely bothered what happens in the cup game so long as we don't end up with injuries), being willing to attack teams away from Villa park is essential and his record in that regard has been terrible.

Offline Chris Smith

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4780 on: August 20, 2017, 05:58:46 PM »
Oh I see, no when I said 'no plan' I meant in the broader sense. It all looked a bit 'knock it up to Kevin Davies, who knocks it down to Kevin Nolan' to me. Which, like I say, is fine when it works, but doesn't inspire confidence to me.

Agree on the moan-lovers, it can get a bit pathalogical, but I do think that this needs to be separated from continuing concern for the state of the team/club/manager etc. As future manager PWS said on another thread, it's possible to enjoy the win and not believe in Bruce.

Were you at the game or did you watch it on a stream? I ask because again your begrudging acknowledgement bears little resemblance to what I saw but if you are not there then you you get a limited view of what is happening. I completely agree with the one swallow argument and if we fail to repeat it then yesterday will count for little in the grander scheme. However, my hope is that this sets a template for what we are capable of, that it gives their confidence a boost and the players start to impose themselves on a regular basis. We should have more of a clue by this time next week.

Offline john e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4781 on: August 20, 2017, 06:05:09 PM »
if Bruce follows up that attacking performance with some more and that becomes the way we play on a regular basis then it will be the first time in his whole managerial career,

 so we basically know that won't happen, it's not his style and never will be,we all know how he gets teams up even the ones that like him stealth is his way

so let's just enjoy yesterday however it came to pass

Offline Abbeyfealeavfc

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4782 on: August 20, 2017, 06:19:48 PM »
Great result yesterday, but in my view Bruce still has it all to do! Due to his dreadful start we need 4 points from the next 2 games, to match Brighton's start last season. Further to that we need at least 18 points in total from our 1st 10 games or 21 in total from our 1st 11 games to match Brighton's 2016/17 start to ensure we are at least in the mix for automatic promotion. Personally if I was Xia I would be reviewing the manager's position after each of the next 2 games and perhaps every few games thereafter. Automatic promotion has got to be our sole aim. Bruce has to be kept on his toes to avoid any further (almost self-induced) bad runs. What would have been welcome after yesterday's victory was Bruce showing a little humility and dedicating the win to the long suffering fans, rather than point scoring via his media chums. UTV, VTID

Offline sickbeggar

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4783 on: August 20, 2017, 06:50:59 PM »
Just delaying the inevitable imo. We still couldn't keep the ball as the stats show and the goals  were welcome but having to score 3 to win at home? I hope Nan's hair has tripped over some winning formula by accident but i think its more likely we've finally found a team as bad as us.

Yet they beat QPR the other day who in turn beat Hull yesterday. This is all typical of the start of the season, while teams are still settling into it so we shouldn't dismiss it, a win is a win.

Of course, it is early days. I just think its unlikely we'll be scoring 4 every game so we have to stop shipping them at the other end and keeping possession better

They had more possession in the way we used to under Lambert, totally ineffective and in the wrong half of the pitch.

We may have had less of the ball but we were far more effective with it, I felt we actually controlled the whole game yesterday. Both of their goals came out of the blue a bit, and we responded both times by going on the attack, which was a nice surprise.

You may be right about their type of lambert style possession but we will play a lot of teams who will capitalise on being given a lot of the ball and surrendering possession has been a key feature of the games we've lost. End of the day not many teams have gone up or done anything giving the opposition most of the ball.

Offline Ads

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4784 on: August 20, 2017, 07:23:02 PM »
It's an issue if you're surrendering territory at the same time and we didn't.