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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 324981 times)

Online itbrvilla

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4050 on: August 15, 2017, 02:00:53 PM »
The problem with changing managers every season is that the squad are built for that manager's style. Change the manager and you need to "re-build the squad". That's why the European model is to have a Director of Football to set the style of the club then you appoint managers/coaches to achieve this. When they get sacked you don't have to "rebuild the squad" as the players already match the playing style.
First thing we should of done once the new owners were in was to take a look at Southampton's and Swansea's models.

Offline Monty

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4051 on: August 15, 2017, 02:04:29 PM »
The problem with changing managers every season is that the squad are built for that manager's style. Change the manager and you need to "re-build the squad". That's why the European model is to have a Director of Football to set the style of the club then you appoint managers/coaches to achieve this. When they get sacked you don't have to "rebuild the squad" as the players already match the playing style.

Sound objection in principle, but as has been mentioned Bruce doesn't seem to have signed the players with any particular style in mind, and in the absence of tactics has reverted to punting the ball up to sub-6' strikers like Hogan. We could change manager to anyone who plays football on the ground and they'd be better suited to the players Bruce has signed than Bruce.

Offline Hookeysmith

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4052 on: August 15, 2017, 02:09:58 PM »
The problem with changing managers every season is that the squad are built for that manager's style. Change the manager and you need to "re-build the squad". That's why the European model is to have a Director of Football to set the style of the club then you appoint managers/coaches to achieve this. When they get sacked you don't have to "rebuild the squad" as the players already match the playing style.

Sound objection in principle, but as has been mentioned Bruce doesn't seem to have signed the players with any particular style in mind, and in the absence of tactics has reverted to punting the ball up to sub-6' strikers like Hogan. We could change manager to anyone who plays football on the ground and they'd be better suited to the players Bruce has signed than Bruce.

In a nutshell

I genuinely think almost every Manager in this division would want the sum of our squads parts - I am also sure every one of them could get what we have playing better than they are

All this is the Managers fault

Offline aj2k77

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4053 on: August 15, 2017, 02:10:11 PM »
There's no plan with Bruce. So not defending him at all. It's been stunning that he's chopped and changed so much. I just wonder though is there enough patience amongst all fans to see a plan through? Huddersfield would have been more likely to sign a Joe Bennett than a Jordan Amavi, players for 500k than 5m. How would we react and does that reaction change how the manager ends up behaving?

Huddersfield wouldn't sign either of them because neither could defend.

That's not the point I'm making

It's not a problem that we have vast resources compared to other clubs in the division. The problem is we've had poor managers utilizing them.

Given the choice between a 500,000 and a 5,000,000 player the cost shouldn't be the major factor, the important part is how they'd fit in to the team and which is the better fit.

Scott Hogan, 9m, we could brought someone for less than a million who would look equally useless as we lump the ball up to him. We could also have spent that 9m on someone more fitting with our Brucie hoofball and they'd look more value.

Online Toronto Villa

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4054 on: August 15, 2017, 02:39:56 PM »
The point I'm making is how as a fan base would we react to signing the types of players Huddersfield or Bournemouth did in the Championship. Is there an elevated sense of self worth and with it an expectation that we shop from a a certain shelf being Aston Villa?

And yes I f course it matters how our resources and the players we acquire are are used. I'm at a loss like everyone as to why an experienced manager would punt the ball 60yds in the air to Scott Hogan. It's fucking stupid.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 02:41:31 PM by Toronto Villa »

Offline NeilH

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4055 on: August 15, 2017, 03:46:27 PM »
Is there an elevated sense of self worth and with it an expectation that we shop from a a certain shelf being Aston Villa?

I've got no doubt that we have an elevated sense of self worth, after all we were mainstays of the Premier League since its inception until our demise. This sense of self worth and the history is certainly a factor in teams elevating their performance against us.
However, give it a few years in this league and as the fans trickle away and more and more Premier League tops are spotted on an average shopping day on New Street, then  there will be some re-alignment of our place.

Offline Matt Collins

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4056 on: August 15, 2017, 04:25:57 PM »
It's a good point

If villa had signed Steve sidwell and that centre forward from palace there would have been a complete meltdown

It wa good enough for Brighton last year though

Online ChicagoLion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4057 on: August 15, 2017, 04:28:50 PM »
The point I'm making is how as a fan base would we react to signing the types of players Huddersfield or Bournemouth did in the Championship. Is there an elevated sense of self worth and with it an expectation that we shop from a a certain shelf being Aston Villa?


Lambert did the young and hungry thing, it didn't work because the players were not good enough.
Generally I think the fans give players a chance regardless of money paid.
So no I don't think this is the case.
A lot of Managers will will tend to pay to the top of thier budget, this is the mentality problem.

Online Chris Smith

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4058 on: August 15, 2017, 06:47:58 PM »
The problem with changing managers every season is that the squad are built for that manager's style. Change the manager and you need to "re-build the squad". That's why the European model is to have a Director of Football to set the style of the club then you appoint managers/coaches to achieve this. When they get sacked you don't have to "rebuild the squad" as the players already match the playing style.

Sound objection in principle, but as has been mentioned Bruce doesn't seem to have signed the players with any particular style in mind, and in the absence of tactics has reverted to punting the ball up to sub-6' strikers like Hogan. We could change manager to anyone who plays football on the ground and they'd be better suited to the players Bruce has signed than Bruce.

We start games trying to play the right way but seem to regularly end up reverting to the long ball. This is, to my mind, born of desperation and a failure to make the most of periods when we are on top or allowing ourselves to be pushed back if we do take the lead. I thought Whelan would provide leadership and stop that happening. It's only two games in so too soon to write him off but the signs so far are less than encouraging.

Online paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4059 on: August 15, 2017, 06:56:25 PM »
The problem with changing managers every season is that the squad are built for that manager's style. Change the manager and you need to "re-build the squad". That's why the European model is to have a Director of Football to set the style of the club then you appoint managers/coaches to achieve this. When they get sacked you don't have to "rebuild the squad" as the players already match the playing style.

Sound objection in principle, but as has been mentioned Bruce doesn't seem to have signed the players with any particular style in mind, and in the absence of tactics has reverted to punting the ball up to sub-6' strikers like Hogan. We could change manager to anyone who plays football on the ground and they'd be better suited to the players Bruce has signed than Bruce.

We start games trying to play the right way but seem to regularly end up reverting to the long ball. This is, to my mind, born of desperation and a failure to make the most of periods when we are on top or allowing ourselves to be pushed back if we do take the lead. I thought Whelan would provide leadership and stop that happening. It's only two games in so too soon to write him off but the signs so far are less than encouraging.

The solution to this is to work on the playing style much more in training.

When you're tired and nervous you default to what is comfortable and for our squad now and for the last few years the comfort zone is hoofing it to the other end of the pitch and hoping something comes from it.  A manager who's doing nothing to address that in training and doing nothing to change it during games is just adding to the problem so I see no reason to think it's going to change in the next few months unless we bin him and bring in someone who refuses to accept the sort of shit we saw in the second half against Hull or the cup game.  Cardiff just gave us a load of other problems to worry about.

Offline gpbarr

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4060 on: August 15, 2017, 09:15:35 PM »
Within 24 hours, the club need to do the right thing. Enough is enough.

Offline CT

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4061 on: August 15, 2017, 09:18:44 PM »
Now, right now.

I wonder when we we are finally going to reach our lowest point?

Offline Sexual Ealing

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4062 on: August 15, 2017, 09:21:08 PM »
He's going tonight. He must.

Offline Legion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4063 on: August 15, 2017, 09:21:12 PM »
Goodbye Stevie Bruce
Oh what can it mean to a(nother)
Sad useless bastard
That's ruined our team

Offline oswald funkletrumpet

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4064 on: August 15, 2017, 09:22:00 PM »
Now, right now.

I wonder when we we are finally going to reach our lowest point?

Next season when all the money has gone