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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 318894 times)

Offline old man villa fan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4020 on: August 14, 2017, 11:26:49 PM »
I would rather use the rest of this season to bed things in and go for promotion next season with a team that would stand half a chance in the PL than fail again with a 'sticking plaster' attempt this season.
I'm pretty sure a lot of ppl said that last season. We're only 2 games in and we, as a club, simply cannot afford to write this season off already regardless of who the manager is, who we have in the squad and what football philosophy we follow. If you thinks it's bad now, then we will be in a whole new world of shit financially next season if we fail to get promoted this season.

There is nothing to stop Dr Xia injecting more equity into the Club (provided he has the money) to reduce losses to fall within FFP rules.  Do you not think that the Owner is using FFP to control Bruce's spending so as not to have a cupboard full of last years expensive toys.

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4021 on: August 15, 2017, 12:23:51 AM »
I would rather use the rest of this season to bed things in and go for promotion next season with a team that would stand half a chance in the PL than fail again with a 'sticking plaster' attempt this season.
I'm pretty sure a lot of ppl said that last season. We're only 2 games in and we, as a club, simply cannot afford to write this season off already regardless of who the manager is, who we have in the squad and what football philosophy we follow. If you thinks it's bad now, then we will be in a whole new world of shit financially next season if we fail to get promoted this season.

There is nothing to stop Dr Xia injecting more equity into the Club (provided he has the money) to reduce losses to fall within FFP rules.  Do you not think that the Owner is using FFP to control Bruce's spending so as not to have a cupboard full of last years expensive toys.
Sadly I don't think FFP allows this, it is based on the Profit and Loss account not the Balance Sheet.
The clubs spending is curtailed based on previous losses and the current projected trading position.
I am sure if we were PSG and backed by the Quataris the interpretation might be different.
We really are stuck.

Offline alftitimus

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4022 on: August 15, 2017, 12:57:16 AM »
I have a genuine fear that we get rid of Bruce and Wyness brings his old mate Moyes in.

Regarding Moyes - he has never been succesful unless he was the highest paid employee at the club. Strange but True. So here, his take home pay would be somewhere above Ross/Gaby/JT.
With Steve's 1 Year roll-on to be paid off, plus any 'golden handshake' to an unemployed manager...or compensation to one employed....plus the new backroom staff...jeez...

All that in the face of FFP  :'(  :'(

Another crucial point that some forget is that as Mr Xia boasted last September...not one penny of our Parachute Payments has been spent on Transfers.
Inferring that Recon and himself had 'stacks-of-money'

Truth was, as the Guardian said months later, our Parachute Payments are "Ring-Fenced" for Lerner. As part of the 3-Level stage of Mr Xia paying for us.
We don't have any Parachute money to  spend, although it will be included in our earnings under FFP.

My point is, we need to lower expectations now, Xia needs to take football advice - and not boast about giving such advice to other owners.

 :'( 

Offline KRS

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4023 on: August 15, 2017, 01:15:02 AM »
I would rather use the rest of this season to bed things in and go for promotion next season with a team that would stand half a chance in the PL than fail again with a 'sticking plaster' attempt this season.
I'm pretty sure a lot of ppl said that last season. We're only 2 games in and we, as a club, simply cannot afford to write this season off already regardless of who the manager is, who we have in the squad and what football philosophy we follow. If you thinks it's bad now, then we will be in a whole new world of shit financially next season if we fail to get promoted this season.

There is nothing to stop Dr Xia injecting more equity into the Club (provided he has the money) to reduce losses to fall within FFP rules.  Do you not think that the Owner is using FFP to control Bruce's spending so as not to have a cupboard full of last years expensive toys.
Wishful thinking, but unfortunately I think the truth is closer to being financially fucked next season if we're still in the Championship with our high earners. The only upside is that I think a lot of them are over paid and next to useless, so we'll be forced into a situation of fucking them off whilst bringing through youth and relying upon good scouting for cheap players...if you think its bad now, then it could get a whole lot worse if Xia doesn't make the right decisions right within the next week or so.

Offline shaunreynolds

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4024 on: August 15, 2017, 03:23:37 AM »

Offline brian green

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4025 on: August 15, 2017, 06:51:48 AM »
Yeah. Right.

Offline Duncan Shaw

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4026 on: August 15, 2017, 08:53:55 AM »
What I don;t get is why do we seem to be the onlyu club in the world being affected by FFP?

Offline Nelson Lodge

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4027 on: August 15, 2017, 10:53:33 AM »
The thought has occurred to me that Bruce finds himself in this god awful mess because he approached the job in an over confident, even complacent, state of mind. Knowing that he had already got 4 promotions from this division, thinks "it is a piece of piss" this time with Villa's resources. Now that the job has "severely bitten him in the arse" he has no idea what to do next.

Another thing, in the post match interview he said more than once he had been in the job for 6 months! He was appointed on 12th October, 2016, yet neither Regan nor any other journo to my knowledge picked him up on it. Even my limited maths makes that 10 months. Their next question to him should have been "Steve what have you been doing for the other 4 months? Been on the beach or several golf courses in Portugsl?". If he is being honest in his 6 months then working just 6 out of 10 months could explain a lot! Otherwise he has completely lost the plot and should bugger off now!

Offline Holte L2

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4028 on: August 15, 2017, 11:05:47 AM »
We gambled on Bruce as a "promotion expert". A blow who could turn around our shite start last season and defensively drill and bore our way into the play offs. The gamble didn't pay off and we didn't get close to promotion.

I wrote in H+V last season that we needed to implement root and branch change and get in a manager with modern methods who likes to play on the front foot.

RDM was brought in as a name and because he got Olbiyun promoted. Back then though you could just outscore the opposition in this league with a couple of decent strikers. This I think explains some of the "imaginative" attacking formations we saw last when he was in charge.

Bruce didn't do what it said on the tin. We didn't become achingly difficult to break down. We didn't score hatfuls from set pieces. We didn't have a never say die, work your bollocks off attitude that was taken as a given with his teams. The stats quoted on here show quite alarmingly that he hasn't got close to introducing that.

I can take shit football for the greater good of winning games and being promoted. We have neither and aren't likely to with him at the helm.

And whilst I am at it, this "build 3 teams" notion Wyness has is a bonkers crock of shit. You start with the philosophy and then add quality to improve on the players. You don't keep switching philosophy depending on where the team finds itself. You don't buy a small plot of land and build a smashing bungalow on it knowing that you want to knock it down in a years time to build the world's most slender skyscraper.

Piss poor planning and the architects of our own downfall yet again. I can live with losing. But losing and boring the shit out of me in the process is too much.

Bin him. I am fed up to the back teeth of watching shit clubs motor beyond us simply because they have a forward thinking board who recognise that playing attacking, front foot football is the only way to progress.

I disagree with Woodhall for a change. Bruce is way out of step with what is required to make a go of it in this league and the one above it.

The thing that all the shitty little clubs that have leap frogged us have is a consistent plan on how they approach playing, managerial and player recruitment. Fuck me, we got outplayed on Saturday by a Colin Wanker team. I could deal with that if they kicked us out of the game but they didn't.

They were quicker, more organised, fitter and passed the ball far better than us. Fucking Cardiff. Managed by Colin Fucking Wanker.

The big issue now is time. We gambled on that quick fix and it didn't work. If we don't go up this season (and I don't believe we will with Bruce in charge) then we are fucked financially.

So whilst I still advocate that change in philosophy we might have already blown our chances when it comes to the changes required. We have one final twist to get to 21 but we are taking a card when we already have 16. But if we do twist it has to be in the next couple of weeks. And if that card is turned over and it is Allardyce or Moyes then we will be stuck in this shit division for some time to come.

Perfect post. Absolutely spot on. This needs to get to the board.

Offline NeilH

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4029 on: August 15, 2017, 11:11:58 AM »
You know I sit and read through all the comments, suggestion and counter suggestions and it feels like Groundhog Day all over again at Villa Park. Weve tried every single flavour of manager over the past few years and yet still we end up in the same damn situation, namely a big club on its ar*e unable to pick itself up and start again. For every single candidate offered up along with the reasons behind the thinking, I see said candidate (were he to be successful) sitting uncomfortably a couple of years later at a press conference having aged a decade and explaining why the club is mid-table.

Im no fan of Bruce, but quite frankly I really dont see how anyone else could turn it around right now, as the last few years have proven that no matter what name is above the dugout it changes little on the field.

What I do see is the club I love on its way to becoming a Leeds or a Forest, a footnote in Premier league history and a Championship mainstay who were good 20 years ago. The only thing right now that we can truly be proud of are our fans, whos unending support home and away is a real testament to the club; however, if we roll forward 5 years and we are still stuck in this league, are we honestly convinced that we will still be able to count on this?

What worries me the most in this ramble of mine is that if the club that represents the second city is unable to arrest its terminal decline, that we will start to lose a generation of future fans to the lure of successful Premier League clubs.

Offline itbrvilla

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4030 on: August 15, 2017, 12:33:41 PM »
You know I sit and read through all the comments, suggestion and counter suggestions and it feels like Groundhog Day all over again at Villa Park. Weve tried every single flavour of manager over the past few years and yet still we end up in the same damn situation, namely a big club on its ar*e unable to pick itself up and start again. For every single candidate offered up along with the reasons behind the thinking, I see said candidate (were he to be successful) sitting uncomfortably a couple of years later at a press conference having aged a decade and explaining why the club is mid-table.

Im no fan of Bruce, but quite frankly I really dont see how anyone else could turn it around right now, as the last few years have proven that no matter what name is above the dugout it changes little on the field.

What I do see is the club I love on its way to becoming a Leeds or a Forest, a footnote in Premier league history and a Championship mainstay who were good 20 years ago. The only thing right now that we can truly be proud of are our fans, whos unending support home and away is a real testament to the club; however, if we roll forward 5 years and we are still stuck in this league, are we honestly convinced that we will still be able to count on this?

What worries me the most in this ramble of mine is that if the club that represents the second city is unable to arrest its terminal decline, that we will start to lose a generation of future fans to the lure of successful Premier League clubs.

I can't help but feel we are finished as a remotely competitive outfit.  The spending last year although needed was reckless with little thought given to even the short term plan.

Offline Ad@m

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4031 on: August 15, 2017, 12:38:09 PM »
You know I sit and read through all the comments, suggestion and counter suggestions and it feels like Groundhog Day all over again at Villa Park. Weve tried every single flavour of manager over the past few years and yet still we end up in the same damn situation, namely a big club on its ar*e unable to pick itself up and start again. For every single candidate offered up along with the reasons behind the thinking, I see said candidate (were he to be successful) sitting uncomfortably a couple of years later at a press conference having aged a decade and explaining why the club is mid-table.

Im no fan of Bruce, but quite frankly I really dont see how anyone else could turn it around right now, as the last few years have proven that no matter what name is above the dugout it changes little on the field.

What I do see is the club I love on its way to becoming a Leeds or a Forest, a footnote in Premier league history and a Championship mainstay who were good 20 years ago. The only thing right now that we can truly be proud of are our fans, whos unending support home and away is a real testament to the club; however, if we roll forward 5 years and we are still stuck in this league, are we honestly convinced that we will still be able to count on this?

What worries me the most in this ramble of mine is that if the club that represents the second city is unable to arrest its terminal decline, that we will start to lose a generation of future fans to the lure of successful Premier League clubs.


This is it for me too, although I'm more open to a change of gaffer as I now have zero faith in Bruce.

As Leeds, Forest, Sheff Weds, et al have proven, being a big club these days, with big crowds counts for nothing. 

The money generated by bringing 30,000 people through the gates on a routine basis is dwarfed by the amount even the tiny clubs get from the TV deals.  As a result it comes down more to the vision and competence of those in charge at the club - something we've consistently proven over the past decade (and beyond if we're honest - HDE may have been competent but he had fuck all vision beyond lining his own pockets) we're crap at.

In summary, this season really is shit or bust.

Offline PeterWithesShin

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4032 on: August 15, 2017, 12:39:24 PM »
That's the problem, for years we've spent money but not really had a plan. Using Wagner as an example from the other thread, despite a small budget he brought in players that were to do specific jobs and could do what he wanted them to do. We spend way more money but seem to sign a player and then think, now what do we do with him.

Offline Ad@m

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4033 on: August 15, 2017, 12:41:44 PM »
That's the problem, for years we've spent money but not really had a plan. Using Wagner as an example from the other thread, despite a small budget he brought in players that were to do specific jobs and could do what he wanted them to do. We spend way more money but seem to sign a player and then think, now what do we do with him.

Quite.  And that links in to the frankly shocking ratio of players who've improved while they've been at the Villa vs those that haven't.

Offline Comrade Blitz

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #4034 on: August 15, 2017, 12:48:51 PM »
I can't help but feel we are finished as a remotely competitive outfit.

The new Notts County?