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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 318685 times)

Offline footyskillz

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3855 on: August 13, 2017, 11:11:11 AM »
I mentioned before during last season  and I have claims that this job is far too big for Bruce . His one dimensional play and rigid thinking and beliefs both limit the teams and players he's used each match day

I wishes we taken the progressive David Wagner as Huddersfield gone from strength to strength but went with the Bruce option fair enough at the time we all suppose and there was some hope along the way .

 Bought well we presumed during the winter window 'for this level' and even reasonable additions this summer -certainly adding to  quality .

However time again under his team and squad has the play and performance been sub standard . The winning run wasn't convincing last season but there was reason for optimism if results nothing else to be believed. Wasn't sustained as we know !

It's now  not been okay to hear those brutally honest  after match comments .

Hearing him after Cardiff is the same old and that's because he's the same old . Bruce needs to understand that I grow  tired of his explanation and stock phrases of 'we were awful' and 'not doing the basics' whilst  continues to say 'brutally honest ' is not only now irritating but his  tactic to preserve. It's also screaming out that he's out of his depth.

Certainly not one to deflect the flak from his team and squad and needs to be 'genuinely honest' in admitting he picks team and squad and that with coaching team (yes along with players) he is ultimately responsible.
 
I feel sad and disappointed but for me it's clear he's too rigid and set in belief as he's a senior man of years a captain in his day and experienced football person is not always a recipe for success .

One of main reasons is his utter belief that has to have certain  types of fighters in a team. It's more than that it's actually have a team spirit and squad spirit .

Bruce needs to harness a team spirit and bring about a togetherness . He has so far been unable to do this .
He's played team after team where players are different and never played together . These people don't know each other off field and this shows . 

Bruce needs to motivate and  bond this team I mean he played bacuna against hull and now selling him- madness !

Madness in fact that it's displaying he hasn't really got a settled side if he's starting a playing that's now being transferred (when have others who could have played).
I'm all for flexibility and squad competition I'm not for non progression .

It would be difficult to take this stale football in mid table premier league. And the displays are like a team who are settled in mid table safety especially away from villa.

Bruce only answer is a simple one about basics it's actually more complex and clearly hasn't got where with all to develop and improve.

Unfortunately out of his depth and lacking necessary coaching skills including motivation and tactical nous the chap is now saying repeatedly the same thing .


For anyone who hasnt heard the interview after Cardiff it was a master class on his simple behaviour and beliefs lacking responsibility (due to club being to large for him )

No sign of his influence and authority. No tactical chat about Cardiff did this or villa didn't do that .
Talked about bully centre half and basics right .
I'm afraid that's far too simple and limited  !
Just like our play .

He's hoodwinking many by using the honest approach.
And that's the problem He sounded like a fan a supporter someone from the outside looking in. At times commenting without the knowledge.

 By all means comments are accurate and true but this is the manager we re talking about . Top managers never speak like this. Or even good managers .

Granted he not making excuses as he's too experienced to pull that one instead his simple approach shows he's not understanding more than the basics himself !!!! .

Where is his influence and authority that's what's lacking or is it the case that it is his influence and authority that causes both the performance and personnel to not meet requirements so spectacularly.
It is in my opinion 100%

After the match he claiming he's been at the club 6 months +pre season. No you haven't Steve ! Been here longer .

But you won't be much more!

« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 11:20:57 AM by footyskillz »

Offline tomd2103

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3856 on: August 13, 2017, 11:12:37 AM »
I always thought one way or another Bruce would sort us out and get us promoted.  With his experience & Xia's cash I thought it would be pretty nailed on.

Last season our lack of progress and any sort of cohesive game plan started to give me doubts, but I thought after a full summer and a few additions it would start to click, maybe not pretty but effective.

But it was our obvious lack of progress in preseason that really set alarm bells and changed my thinking.  Pretty much all our old failings were still there and still no obvious game plan or signs of turning this round despite a few more signings.  It was only preseason so maybe not time to panic, but the fact nothing had changed was obvious for all to see.

I still think our squad is ok and it could possibly be turned round.  But two games in it is hard to see this.

I still have mixed feelings about sacking him right now.  I can't see any way we would get a decent manager to jump ship two games into the season and the likes of Moyes have lost their appeal.  I think Allardyce would get more out the squad than Bruce has but I just couldn't face seeing him as Villa manager.  It's easy to say go and hunt out the next Wagner, but for every success like him there must be doezens of failures - look at Garde & Solskear etc. 

We're in a difficult position with no easy answers.  I don't think there's any prospect of us sacking him until we're several games further into the season. But I'm interested to hear who people think we could realistically attract right now in our current position?
[/b]

This is exactly how I feel.

Said it before, but I would look at Karanka.  He isn't in another job at the moment and did a good job to turn Middlesbrough around. 

Offline ozzjim

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3857 on: August 13, 2017, 11:22:03 AM »
What about Hodgson? England aside did incredibly well with Fulham and Albion. Not exciting but might give you a decent tactical manager at this level.

I don't think Fulham fella would leave them for us now. Sadly. Karanka is not a bad shout and might have us playing a bit more football. Heckingbottom at Barnsely should also be a thought. Done an incredibly decent job there and is young enough to grow.

Offline Clark W Griswold

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3858 on: August 13, 2017, 11:28:44 AM »
Not sure about Hodgson. Whilst he has done things of merit in his career so has Bruce. If we're going to make a change it needs to be someone fresh and upcoming but with some experience to handle the role. The chap at Huddersfield springs to mind but seeing as that ones unlikely then someone similar who is attainable.

Offline TheMalandro

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3859 on: August 13, 2017, 11:30:38 AM »
What about Hodgson? England aside did incredibly well with Fulham and Albion. Not exciting but might give you a decent tactical manager at this level.

I don't think Fulham fella would leave them for us now. Sadly. Karanka is not a bad shout and might have us playing a bit more football. Heckingbottom at Barnsely should also be a thought. Done an incredibly decent job there and is young enough to grow.

I thought Karanka too but him buying Villa players worries me.

Offline footyskillz

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3860 on: August 13, 2017, 11:33:56 AM »
A question for those of you who get to games home and away.  Are the views in this thread expressed by supporters who don't post here?
I didn't want Bruce from day one but that is a view based on TV, radio and the written word rather than actually watching his teams play in the flesh.

I personally don't think need to be attending matches to see or hear the obvious . Of course it depends how much one has seen read or heard and that those who view matches home and away will be even stronger in their discontent as they watch even more of the ineptness !

Nevertheless let's hear what i expect that Bruce is not performing .

Bruce said itself so any one who thinks otherwise i feel is too die hard and blinkered to admit

Offline VinnieChase84

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3861 on: August 13, 2017, 11:51:54 AM »

Excellent post. Nail on head


There should be absolutely no surprises that we are in this situation.

The team were eye bleedingly painful, boring and tedious to watch for pretty much all of last season.
We said many times, we have not had a SINGLE game where we have looked dominant and assured and even pleasing to watch. We had a few minutes here and there and we even had a couple of good 45 minutes, but never a full game.

The run in last season was painful. As painful as the slow decent into this division the previous year.

The writing was on the wall. This is the way Steve Bruce's teams play football.
There is no alternative. He has no alternative.

To suggest that by giving him 10 games to see if he can turn this round is like expecting him to have some kind of miraculous transformation, where the scales drop from his eyes and he suddenly realises that the modern game needs a different approach to what he has always delivered.

The writing was on the wall in pre season, where we laboured against low standard opposition in exactly the same way we did for most of last season.

But of course, pre season is just about fitness, so it didn't really matter at alarm bells were starting to tinkle in the distance, did it?

The writing was on the wall last week in the season opener. 1-1 at home, and he takes off one of the most prolific strikers in this division, and replaces him with a midfielder. Not another striker so that we can on to try and win the game, but seemingly to hold what we had.

And then incredulously, with 4 minutes of stoppage time to play, he decides to revert to 1970's pub football by 'throwing on the big centre half up front ' and lumping the ball up to him in the desperate hope of a knock down.

The cup game in midweek saw us squeak past 4th division opponents. The football we played in the second half was nothing short of embarrassing.

But of course, the weather was bad, and it 'was a leveller'. Yes, it levelled us down to 4th division quality football (but we weren't even that good!).

And yesterday was just a fecking disgrace, no two ways about it.

The writing has been on the wall for months.
He ain't changing. His 'style' and approach ain't changing.

Unless someone at the club has the balls to pull the trigger on this footballing dinosaur very,very soon we should resign ourselves to being bored to tears every week, and probably remaining in this division for at least another year.

I just hope and pray the writing is on the wall for Mr.Bruce.
Excellent summary. Spot on

Online Chris Smith

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3862 on: August 13, 2017, 11:58:09 AM »
My guess is that the board will still be willing to give him a chance but there will be intense scrutiny on the next few games. Bruce and the players need to show a marked improvement and do it quickly or it will be curtains. I know there will be plenty of "whatabotery" and "yes buts" but I just do not see them acting after 2 league games.

Bruce, rightly, will carry the can if things do not change but at the same time the players need to take a long, hard critical look at themselves and not hide behind the manager.

Offline CT

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3863 on: August 13, 2017, 11:59:01 AM »

Excellent post. Nail on head


There should be absolutely no surprises that we are in this situation.

The team were eye bleedingly painful, boring and tedious to watch for pretty much all of last season.
We said many times, we have not had a SINGLE game where we have looked dominant and assured and even pleasing to watch. We had a few minutes here and there and we even had a couple of good 45 minutes, but never a full game.

The run in last season was painful. As painful as the slow decent into this division the previous year.

The writing was on the wall. This is the way Steve Bruce's teams play football.
There is no alternative. He has no alternative.

To suggest that by giving him 10 games to see if he can turn this round is like expecting him to have some kind of miraculous transformation, where the scales drop from his eyes and he suddenly realises that the modern game needs a different approach to what he has always delivered.

The writing was on the wall in pre season, where we laboured against low standard opposition in exactly the same way we did for most of last season.

But of course, pre season is just about fitness, so it didn't really matter at alarm bells were starting to tinkle in the distance, did it?

The writing was on the wall last week in the season opener. 1-1 at home, and he takes off one of the most prolific strikers in this division, and replaces him with a midfielder. Not another striker so that we can on to try and win the game, but seemingly to hold what we had.

And then incredulously, with 4 minutes of stoppage time to play, he decides to revert to 1970's pub football by 'throwing on the big centre half up front ' and lumping the ball up to him in the desperate hope of a knock down.

The cup game in midweek saw us squeak past 4th division opponents. The football we played in the second half was nothing short of embarrassing.

But of course, the weather was bad, and it 'was a leveller'. Yes, it levelled us down to 4th division quality football (but we weren't even that good!).

And yesterday was just a fecking disgrace, no two ways about it.

The writing has been on the wall for months.
He ain't changing. His 'style' and approach ain't changing.

Unless someone at the club has the balls to pull the trigger on this footballing dinosaur very,very soon we should resign ourselves to being bored to tears every week, and probably remaining in this division for at least another year.

I just hope and pray the writing is on the wall for Mr.Bruce.
Excellent summary. Spot on

Yep, same from me. The only point I'd question is if we stick with him whether we'd actually stay in this division.

Offline frank

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3864 on: August 13, 2017, 12:13:31 PM »
A question for those of you who get to games home and away.  Are the views in this thread expressed by supporters who don't post here?
I didn't want Bruce from day one but that is a view based on TV, radio and the written word rather than actually watching his teams play in the flesh.
I go to most games.home and away, except when I'm working abroad. Somebody has asked "When did you last enjoy a Villa game?" and I find that very difficult to answer. Rotherham at home, but it was only Rotherham. Brighton away, but we only drew. And then you go back to the previous season, when we won only three league games, none convincingly. So I guess Liverpool at Wembley in April 2015 was the last truly enjoyable game, with a decent performance against Everton shortly afterwards. Before the brief revival under Sherwood there were years of sheer dross. And yet the fans have continued to turn up. Home attendances have held up reasonably well and the away support has been astonishing.

The fans who travel to games, particularly away, go not just for the football. There's the whole matchday experience of meeting friends, enjoying food and drink and discovering new places. Dave Clark Five, late of this parish, commented yesterday that it had been a good day out, spoilt only by the football. But the football obviously isn't an irrelevance and you wouldn't go all the way to, say, Cardiff or Sunderland if Villa weren't playing there. The majority of the fans I meet at Villa Park and away travel hopefully and perhaps there's more of a mood of optimism than you get in this thread.

But this isn't blind optimism. Yesterday the large away contingent really got behind the team, but when the team failed to offer anything in return the mood soon changed. There was some booing at half time and lots at the end. After the second goal (Terry's fault, I thought, but I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere) our fans left in droves, and the mood of those remaining was as frustrated and angry as the comments on this site. So, SteveN, I'd say that what you read here accurately reflects the feelings of those who attend the games but don't post.

Offline mrfuse

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3865 on: August 13, 2017, 12:19:32 PM »
Apparently this league is tough to get out of and you have to scrap it out against some teams to be successful. 
Bruce seems to go along with this thinking and the fact that we have just been beaten by Cardiff will only strengthen his belief in having a stronger resilience.

But in trying to achieve that core belief he has sacrificed everything that I want to see when I watch a football match without actually attaining any resemblance of a team difficult to beat.
To be honest this division is nothing special and is no different to any other division. I knows its stating the bleeding obvious but it seems to have bypassed the Bruce philosophy simply playing good football will always succeed.

We have no shape,no style and no positive play. I have never watched a Steve Bruce team and come away thinking we played good football today. Whatever we think of our players, I believe they are good enough to out play pretty much every team in the league with a half decent Manager.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 12:21:21 PM by mrfuse »

Online SteveN

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3866 on: August 13, 2017, 12:26:21 PM »
Thanks Frank.  I have no idea how much weight the views of the fans would have when it comes to changing the manager but if the majority are against Bruce then you would think it might do.
My attending matches regularly stopped in the 80's after 20 odd years. Most of that time we were poor and it's a fair old trip from Croydon to Villa Park.  But as you say it's a good day out only spoilt by the football for many of those times.


Offline Bad English

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3867 on: August 13, 2017, 12:55:10 PM »
Brexit is Brexit: Bruce Exit.

Offline Risso

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3868 on: August 13, 2017, 01:00:56 PM »
Brexit is Brexit: Bruce Exit.

Give Pubehead another chance.

We'd be, wait for it.....re-MON-ers.

Sorry.

Offline PeterWithesShin

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3869 on: August 13, 2017, 01:04:54 PM »
Brexit is Brexit: Bruce Exit.

Give Pubehead another chance.

We'd be, wait for it.....re-MON-ers.

Sorry.

Go and sit in the corner and think about what you've just done!