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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 318678 times)

Offline ACVilla

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #345 on: February 15, 2017, 08:54:10 PM »
Has anyone tried pissing in all four corners of the pitch?
Not required.

Barnsley pissed all over us last night.
Get Barry Fry in. Even if it's just as our "Social media manager".

Online ktvillan

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #346 on: February 15, 2017, 09:03:31 PM »
Steve Bruce has a track record, but the problem is he's yesterdays man. His time has PASSED !!!

....https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/nov/30/steve-bruce-sunderland-sacked

 Content ring any bells ?   "I don't do tactics"   ?????????????    :o >:(

I remember reading that article and thinking I'd be glad if we avoided ever having Bruce or his ilk as our boss.  But then you look at his promotion record and it seems to tell a different story.  However you can see it all with us -  no discernable tactics or pattern, outmanouvered and out thought during games, seems to have fallen out with some players (Tshibola, McCormack, Gollini), unable to dominate games or make the most of early superiority, some strange signings (Johnstone to replace Gollini).  Yet the scariest thing to me from that is that he had Eric Cack as his assistant, who did all the coaching.  Jeez no wonder Sunderland were shite. 

Offline old man villa fan

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #347 on: February 15, 2017, 09:52:47 PM »
I am repeating myself a bit from last night but I have tried to look at it from another angle but have come back to the same point that I think we may have got rid of RDM to early in the belief that the team was better than it was and we still had a good chance of getting promoted.  It's easy now looking back but I think most were in agreement at the time that it was the obvious thing to do.

At the start of the season, many thought that we were probably around 8/10 for promotion.  By the time we sacked RDM, that had changed to 4 or 5/10 but we thought that an experienced manager like Bruce could still turn it around and get us back to 8/10 and it started to look that way.  However, we are now back at 4/10 or possibly lower.

During the summer and the first month of the season, RDM had to make changes to the squad due to the relegation as he had no choice.  Getting those players to click straight away was always going to be tough and perhaps we thought it easier than it actually was.  Looking back now, I think RDM would have turned it around a bit and we would possibly be a 6/10 now.  We gambled in trying to reach out for promotion and it has failed miserably.

Bruce came in and saw that the squad was short in some areas but I think he has tried to change too much.  Rather than using his experience to play a way that suited the players, he decided that he wanted the players to play his way, although it didn't suit the players.  I think he has cast aside players too early without adequate replacements.  Ayew hardly got a look in, McCormack was cast aside rather than sorted out, Gollini was given up on and he clearly doesn't fancy Amavi, even before his downturn in form.  Rather than waiting until January, he started to really mess with the team and we had Bacuna playing left midfield, brought in GA etc.  He talks about two up front now but why didn't he push Ayew up alongside Kodjia.

Having started the ball rolling with changes prior to January, he compounded it with another mass influx of players.  Rather than trying to integrate them, he threw three new midfield players in together and then started chopping and changing tactics and players.  It is no wonder the players do not look as though they know each other.

Having said all of the above, I do not think now is the right time to change manager.  Like others, I think we have enough in us to avoid relegation but the probation period starts now for Bruce and runs to the end of the season.  If he has not knitted the players into a team and got them playing in a pattern that looks as though it could be developed further next season, he should be replaced.  I always thought his appointment would be short term as he hasn't got what it takes for the PL.  With that in mind, replacing him in the summer with somebody that could take us up without having a glass ceiling of just survival might be the better solution but that decision can be left until the smoke has cleared at the end of the season.  I do feel that, if the club does want to get back to top 10 in the PL, somebody has to tell Bruce that he needs to change his style because we cannot afford a re-run of Sunderland at a lower level.

Offline themossman

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #348 on: February 15, 2017, 09:57:42 PM »
4/10 for promotion! I like your optimism but I think we can safely say it's 0/10.

Offline old man villa fan

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #349 on: February 15, 2017, 10:02:17 PM »
4/10 for promotion! I like your optimism but I think we can safely say it's 0/10.

It was meant to be the level we are playing at now.  Clearly, I should have changed the comparators.

Offline gpbarr

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #350 on: February 15, 2017, 10:21:10 PM »
Grow some balls. Stupid thread

Offline john e

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #351 on: February 15, 2017, 10:25:46 PM »
John, my apologies for my comments to you last night. They were unnecessary and over the top.

no worries

Online Dave

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #352 on: February 15, 2017, 10:51:41 PM »
Grow some balls. Stupid thread

Will having extra balls stop our manager being quite so terrible?

Online brontebilly

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #353 on: February 15, 2017, 10:59:05 PM »
Lads, how was Benitez able to get Newcastle playing pretty quickly with a host of new players?

It's kind of basic project management really, what are the objectives, what is the plan to realise the objectives, only then acquire the resources to implement that plan.

Time and again we skip forward to the acquiring resources bit without any idea of how to fit them into a coherent team.

Offline LeeB

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #354 on: February 15, 2017, 11:00:43 PM »
Grow some balls. Stupid thread

Will having extra balls stop our manager being quite so terrible?

I'd run through brick walls for a man with four balls.

Offline Monty

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #355 on: February 16, 2017, 12:34:10 AM »
To quote a comment under the article: 'So, if he didn't "do tactics" and he didn't 'coach the team', then... what did he do?'

I don't want to be too harsh on Bruce to be honest. He seems genial and all that, and when he first came in it seemed like we'd finally appointed a genuine competent for a change - even naysayers like myself were admitting we'd got it wrong.

Sadly, as soon as we started saying that it really turned to hell. My instinct is with OMVF - that Bruce might well be a good, short-term gun-for-hire kind of manager, who can take a relatively sturdy club and do something reasonable with it, but that we require something more major than that. We need a long-term rebuild, and for that we need a manager with vision - and I think it's painfully obvious that Bruce, whatever his other qualities, isn't that.

We shouldn't just sack him now, that would be premature and unfair. That said, I'd be very surprised if he did much between now and the end of the season to make me think he's the man for the long-term rebuild. He ought to be given that time barring real catastrophe - but, like I say, I'd be surprised if he did much to change my mind.

Offline tomd2103

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #356 on: February 16, 2017, 12:42:16 AM »
To quote a comment under the article: 'So, if he didn't "do tactics" and he didn't 'coach the team', then... what did he do?'

I don't want to be too harsh on Bruce to be honest. He seems genial and all that, and when he first came in it seemed like we'd finally appointed a genuine competent for a change - even naysayers like myself were admitting we'd got it wrong.

Sadly, as soon as we started saying that it really turned to hell. My instinct is with OMVF - that Bruce might well be a good, short-term gun-for-hire kind of manager, who can take a relatively sturdy club and do something reasonable with it, but that we require something more major than that. We need a long-term rebuild, and for that we need a manager with vision - and I think it's painfully obvious that Bruce, whatever his other qualities, isn't that.

We shouldn't just sack him now, that would be premature and unfair. That said, I'd be very surprised if he did much between now and the end of the season to make me think he's the man for the long-term rebuild. He ought to be given that time barring real catastrophe - but, like I say, I'd be surprised if he did much to change my mind.

After seeing it last night Monty, I wouldn't rule that out at this stage.  I just cannot see how that team will win football matches, as we look vulnerable at the back and offer very little going forward. 

Offline Monty

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #357 on: February 16, 2017, 01:27:03 AM »
I agree Tom, which is why I left in that possibility. Nonetheless, I'd still be surprised if we got into *real* trouble. With our next two games it's possible, but we have goalscorers in the team which tends to make a big difference in relegation scraps.

Offline PeterWithesShin

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #358 on: February 16, 2017, 01:33:54 AM »
My worry is i've felt all season we've got goalscorers, but here we are two thirds of the way through the season and only Wigan have scored less.

Offline dave17

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #359 on: February 16, 2017, 01:58:30 AM »
I agree Tom, which is why I left in that possibility. Nonetheless, I'd still be surprised if we got into *real* trouble. With our next two games it's possible, but we have goalscorers in the team which tends to make a big difference in relegation scraps.

We're one of the lowest scorers in the league

The ability of avfc to coach goal scoring out of our players yet revive visiting strikers is the stuff of legends