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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 324983 times)

Offline Ads

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3240 on: August 06, 2017, 07:35:35 AM »
What did you think of the first half? There wasn't anything glacial in the way we attacked.

Online Axl Rose

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3241 on: August 06, 2017, 07:45:49 AM »
no shit. The only thing he's done since May is make us an older, even more glacial side. I like him as an individual, but he's never going to get us promoted.

My feelings exactly. He's not a very good football manager.

Offline brian green

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3242 on: August 06, 2017, 07:47:52 AM »
As somebody commented yesterday, all of Steve Bruce's eggs are in one basket.  That basket is his past record of winning promotions to the Premiership.  He has no other outstanding managerial attributes.

The example I use is that of Lester Piggott.  He rode nine Epsom Derby winners and was the go-to jockey to ride you a Derby winner.  He rode his last Derby winner Teenoso in 1983 but never rode another before he retired in 1995.

It happens in all sport.  People lose their supremacy due to age, diminishing faculties and motivation.  We have just seen Usain Bolt beaten in the world championships, Mo Farah was pressed to his limit in the 10k, Chris Froome did not win a stage of the Tour de France.  In sport time takes its toll.

We are where we at Villa because we have taken far too many risks with the future of the club.  The dice have been rolled too many times. The appointment of Steve Bruce was another roll of the dice.  The gamble was his ability still to win promotion.  All of the actual evidence of his 36 games in charge suggest that he is now no more certain of getting us promoted than Alex McLeish, Paul Lambert, Tim Sherwood, Remi Garde or Roberto Di Matteo.  To achieve promotion he has to raise his own game as well as the games of his players.  To raise his own game requires a degree of self examination I do not think he is willing to undertake.

Offline passitsideways

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3243 on: August 06, 2017, 08:15:24 AM »
As somebody commented yesterday, all of Steve Bruce's eggs are in one basket.  That basket is his past record of winning promotions to the Premiership.  He has no other outstanding managerial attributes.

The example I use is that of Lester Piggott.  He rode nine Epsom Derby winners and was the go-to jockey to ride you a Derby winner.  He rode his last Derby winner Teenoso in 1983 but never rode another before he retired in 1995.

It happens in all sport.  People lose their supremacy due to age, diminishing faculties and motivation.  We have just seen Usain Bolt beaten in the world championships, Mo Farah was pressed to his limit in the 10k, Chris Froome did not win a stage of the Tour de France.  In sport time takes its toll.

We are where we at Villa because we have taken far too many risks with the future of the club.  The dice have been rolled too many times. The appointment of Steve Bruce was another roll of the dice.  The gamble was his ability still to win promotion.  All of the actual evidence of his 36 games in charge suggest that he is now no more certain of getting us promoted than Alex McLeish, Paul Lambert, Tim Sherwood, Remi Garde or Roberto Di Matteo.  To achieve promotion he has to raise his own game as well as the games of his players.  To raise his own game requires a degree of self examination I do not think he is willing to undertake.

I guess the question then is who isn't a roll of the dice, given we've covered just about the spectrum in recent years - a dour "promotion specialist" in Bruce, a more continental type in Garde, Di Matteo, who was sort of in between (won a promotion but also aspired to play good football), a "run around a bit" proponent in Sherwood, and so on.

Offline Newby

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3244 on: August 06, 2017, 08:55:48 AM »
Bruce has been dour since he got here. A few wins on the bounce but without allowing the players the freedom of the pitch.  His best player was one he didn't sign in Kodjia. Way too early to start thinking about getting rid but I don't see Bruce changing his style.  More frustration ahead I fear.

Offline olaftab

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3245 on: August 06, 2017, 09:00:26 AM »
Excellent summary of state of affairs Brian. Time is our biggest friend and enemy.

Offline eddiemunster

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3246 on: August 06, 2017, 09:02:52 AM »
Watched the interview after the game, and it's the same shit as every other after game interview he's made when we didn't win. The problems are fundamentally with him and his coaching staff. We cannot seem to last 90 minutes, we can't finish and as the game progresses we get deeper and deeper into our own half, the longer the games go on.
Bruce Out? most definitely, and take his backroom staff with him please! >:(

Offline Monty

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3247 on: August 06, 2017, 09:08:43 AM »
When people say 'who could we get', look at Bruce's opposite number yesterday. I don't mean 'hire Slutsky' - I mean if you'd told me that Hull in the Premier League, let alone the Championship, had got Leonid Slutskiy as their manager, I would not have believed you. The truth is the parameters of who we could look to along have changed, and I don't know what the upper limit is and nor does anyone else - though I am confident that it isn't Steve Bruce.

Offline DB

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3248 on: August 06, 2017, 09:36:40 AM »
As somebody commented yesterday, all of Steve Bruce's eggs are in one basket.  That basket is his past record of winning promotions to the Premiership.  He has no other outstanding managerial attributes.

The example I use is that of Lester Piggott.  He rode nine Epsom Derby winners and was the go-to jockey to ride you a Derby winner.  He rode his last Derby winner Teenoso in 1983 but never rode another before he retired in 1995.

It happens in all sport.  People lose their supremacy due to age, diminishing faculties and motivation.  We have just seen Usain Bolt beaten in the world championships, Mo Farah was pressed to his limit in the 10k, Chris Froome did not win a stage of the Tour de France.  In sport time takes its toll.

We are where we at Villa because we have taken far too many risks with the future of the club.  The dice have been rolled too many times. The appointment of Steve Bruce was another roll of the dice.  The gamble was his ability still to win promotion.  All of the actual evidence of his 36 games in charge suggest that he is now no more certain of getting us promoted than Alex McLeish, Paul Lambert, Tim Sherwood, Remi Garde or Roberto Di Matteo.  To achieve promotion he has to raise his own game as well as the games of his players.  To raise his own game requires a degree of self examination I do not think he is willing to undertake.

I guess the question then is who isn't a roll of the dice, given we've covered just about the spectrum in recent years - a dour "promotion specialist" in Bruce, a more continental type in Garde, Di Matteo, who was sort of in between (won a promotion but also aspired to play good football), a "run around a bit" proponent in Sherwood, and so on.

We have played 1 match. Too early to say he is too old to get us up or any other reason. I am not saying he will, but a bit soon to start making such conclusions?
Chris Froome did actually win the tour, as Mo Farah won the 10k. You can look at other examples we're age did not impact success - Alex Ferguson won the title in his last season with pretty average United team, Federer won Wimbledon this year and became oldest player to win it.

Online QuintonVilla

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3249 on: August 06, 2017, 09:39:17 AM »
It's not just 1 match though is it? It's a continuation from last season. This is his squad now but we look leggy, tired, slow and lacking in ideas. This philosophy of score 1 and try to see the game out second half is negative and boring. If you've got the likes of Matic and Kante in midfield you can do that, but when you've got Whelan and Bacuna you just invite pressure onto your defence and we all knew Hull would score.

Offline curlytailavfc

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3250 on: August 06, 2017, 09:40:13 AM »
dont think he will be here by christmas

Online Mister E

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3251 on: August 06, 2017, 09:44:26 AM »
I'd like to know what the drivers were for our first half set-up and performance yesterday, and what happened to change it in the second.
For me, yesterday was a perfect ewxammple of the conundrum we have: a decent set of players and a progressive set-up for a gaime against good opposition, and yet the menager ultimately gets the game management wrong.

Offline KevinGage

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3252 on: August 06, 2017, 09:56:03 AM »
The result is a pisser, and tossing away a lead is all too familiar.

But the improvement for me is that for two thirds of the game we looked like we were trying to win it. 

That should be a given for us, in this division.  But it didn't feel that way if a fair proportion of games last season. Whether it was lack of fitness or just lack of positivity from Bruce is hard to call.

First game of the season, so something would be seriously amiss if we didn't look fit. But we have energy and pace throughout the side and options from the bench. Better forward options than Gabby and Hogan and we win that yesterday. So he gets a pass from me for the time being, but we need to improve pronto. Particularly up top.

Online john e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3253 on: August 06, 2017, 10:02:50 AM »
the mantra of not caring about anything, performances, style, signings, shape, tactics, as long as we get promotion with Bruce ball is the thing i have the biggest problem with

It's as if some of our fan base have been brainwashed into thinking this is the only way to get promotion, that we have to accept the most boring manager we can find and play the worst football we've ever seen to guarantee going up, like there is no alternative, Bruce is the only way to do it
and that for me is so wrong

Plenty of sides have gone up playing better stuff than we are,
the 'let's get up first and then we can plan the future' or 'let's get to the prem with Bruce then we will sort it out' is the worst sort of plan for Villa ever,

if you want to plan for the future you start now with the foundations you want to build on not try and short cut the system with a promotion specialist then sort the shit out,

we have got rid of a load of deadwood only to replace it with a load of deadwood, we are going backwards, when Bruce goes he will leave us worse than when he came because of the average make up and age of the squad

Wyness is just as culpable in my view, he brought him in and shows no signs of knowing what to do he needs to go as well or we will just end up with someone in the same mould as Bruce on a shorterm hang on to my job contract, we seem to be stuck in the 1970's with our management and board set up

I like Xia but he had made massive mistakes with RDM, Wyness and Bruce the whole structure is old fashioned and lacking in direction, he needs to see that and change it ASAP



« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 10:05:39 AM by john e »

Offline KevinGage

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3254 on: August 06, 2017, 10:11:39 AM »
The style thing pisses me off too, in so far as is is generally painted as Villa fans being greedy.

"You want to win loads of games and play good football??"

As if the style is the cherry on the icing on the cake, rather than the vehicle that powers your forward momentum.

Brian might be onto something about the Piggott/ time aspect. Bruce has proven to be effective at this level as recently as 15/16.  But even since then, the amount of money sloshing around the top flight has filtered down to the Championship and standards of player and manager (amongst the better sides) has increased.