collapse

Please donate to help keep this site going.

* The Fanzine

Heroes & Villains Fanzine



Get your fix of all things Claret & Blue by subscribing to the online version!

Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 325135 times)

Offline ciggiesnbeer

  • coach
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6429
  • Location: Mass hysteria for Aston Villa. Some team from the mountains in Russia
  • GM : 29.04.2016
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3030 on: July 23, 2017, 08:16:53 AM »
As others have undoubtedly said, performance under RDM weren't actually that bad.  We generally dominated games and created loads of chances but our finishing was terrible and/or we were unlucky (how many times did we hit the bar or post under RDM).  That, coupled with the fact we had a clear mental fragility that led to us chucking loads of points away in the last few minutes was very frustrating.

Bruce did well to get rid of that mental fragility and I guess packing the defence was part of that.  But now it's sorted, and with Terry in place, all bar the back four and Jedi should be given the freedom to push forward and create.  We've got the best squad in the league by a mile so should be rightfully twatting most of this division.  The fact we're not doing it in preseason doesn't particularly worry me (I have a theory that our best seasons always follow a terrible pre-season and vice-versa) but the fact we don't look like we're trying to does.


Good post that.

Offline MoetVillan

  • international
  • *
  • Posts: 4109
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3031 on: July 23, 2017, 11:02:42 AM »
The couple that used to sit next to me, St holders since the early sixties once commented that the last time we won the league to their memory they had lost each friendly preceding the season start. They were dreading it and we know how it all ended up

Offline SoccerHQ

  • prolific poster
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 30811
  • Location: Down, down, deeper and Down.
  • GM : 19.05.2016
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3032 on: July 23, 2017, 11:06:12 AM »
Do you think it was the wrong decision?

I think it was rushed because the club were hoping they could get Bruce in and he'd get us into the playoffs.  I understood it but I think it was a gamble that didn't pay off so with hindsight I think it was the wrong decision because I don't think we'd have finished any lower under RDM than we did anyway.

I agreed with that. RDM would've got us back up to mid table which surely should've been a given considering what we spent towards the end of the August window. Probably why I was disappointed with how we tailed off in the last 6 weeks as if SB had continued the good run and had us finishing 7th or 8th that would've given the Bruce Out Camp last ammunition as RDM certainly wouldn't have managed that.

Di Matteo as predicted from a few at WBA and Chelsea was just a lax manager totally unsuited to what we needed. How he could think the bulk of the awful premier league side would get us back up was laughable. This time last year all we had signed were Gollini, Elphick and Tishbola.

McCormack came in a few days before Sheff Weds with hardly any pre season and it's showed and then we finally started signing decent players like Chester, Kodjia, Adomah and Jedinak but all after the season had started.

At least this summers window has had a professional air about it even if we don't all agree about the players coming in.

Offline KevinGage

  • player manager
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 10100
  • Location: Front row at the infamous Utah Saints unplugged gig
  • GM : 30.08.2017
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3033 on: July 23, 2017, 11:22:26 AM »
None of the players we have signed so far this window go towards our fundamental problems under Bruce last season: lack of movement off the ball and chance creation. 

The two are intertwined, but -in fairness to Bruce- that first issue goes back longer than his tenure (though for all Bobby Di Matteo's shortcomings, as others have pointed out, his side did create chances).

I'm not entirely convinced that a no.10 as Lambert likes to call them or a similar creative outlet can change a team of plodders on his own. In fact, Lamberk's own attempts with Joe Cole, Gill and Grealish suggest that is unlikely. So a change in how we set up 1-11 and actual coaching is the only real way to remedy our obvious failings.

Online mrfuse

  • first team
  • *
  • Posts: 2036
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3034 on: July 23, 2017, 12:07:21 PM »
Keep it up Paul.   Bruce needs to be held to account.

He isn't' being held to account by posts on a message board read by a couple of hundred people though is he. This is just a few people arguing the toss and has no more bearing on the situation than a few blokes arguing in the pub.


Apart from a large chorus of boo's at the end of the Walsall shambles by around 3500 fans.

We have no right to promotion or anything else - what I do want is to see a plan. Even if we had implemented a system and the shit players we had could not play to it at least could see what it was and support the Manager when he starts to get the right players.

There is just no evidence that Bruce knows what he wants to do or even his best team or formation.

If we are promoted at the end of the season I will shave off  my beard of 8 years and donate 50 to a charity - I will do this willingly

I just cannot see it happening with this dinosaur in charge and the thought of another season of this mundane, wearisome, boringly defensively minded football makes me completely underwhelmed before the season starts.
We can demand nothing but hope - and he gives me none



I think this sums up how I feel. The results of friendlies have never ever mattered to me.
I had far more interest in the style and the identity that would be shown... I still have no idea.

More worryingly is neither does Bruce. 
We are paying for mistakes made in the past.  Bruce is supposedly giving us stability, but that comes as a huge cost of lack of excitement, entertainment,movement and creativity. Surely there is a middle ground and it saddens me to think that teams like Bournemouth and Brighton have shown far more originality than we have.

None of the new signing's have given me any encouragement or even the slightest whiff of excitement. My only hope is that players like Andre Green are not tainted by the mundane, wearisome, boringly defensively minded football Bruce is coaching.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 12:09:19 PM by mrfuse »

Online tomd2103

  • coach
  • *
  • Posts: 8826
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3035 on: July 23, 2017, 12:12:46 PM »
None of the players we have signed so far this window go towards our fundamental problems under Bruce last season: lack of movement off the ball and chance creation. 

The two are intertwined, but -in fairness to Bruce- that first issue goes back longer than his tenure (though for all Bobby Di Matteo's shortcomings, as others have pointed out, his side did create chances).

I'm not entirely convinced that a no.10 as Lambert likes to call them or a similar creative outlet can change a team of plodders on his own. In fact, Lamberk's own attempts with Joe Cole, Gill and Grealish suggest that is unlikely. So a change in how we set up 1-11 and actual coaching is the only real way to remedy our obvious failings.

Agree and I think the key to changing things would be a target man up front.  As you say our movement is non-existent at times (Robbie Keane when he came on loan was probably the last player we had with good movement in the final third) so we do end up going long quite often.  Kodjia and Hogan aren't the type of forwards who will provide a physical presence up front, so the ball ends up coming straight back. 

I thought some of our most threatening periods of play last season came when Gestede and Kodjia played up front together. 

Online mrfuse

  • first team
  • *
  • Posts: 2036
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3036 on: July 23, 2017, 12:28:27 PM »
None of the players we have signed so far this window go towards our fundamental problems under Bruce last season: lack of movement off the ball and chance creation. 

The two are intertwined, but -in fairness to Bruce- that first issue goes back longer than his tenure (though for all Bobby Di Matteo's shortcomings, as others have pointed out, his side did create chances).

I'm not entirely convinced that a no.10 as Lambert likes to call them or a similar creative outlet can change a team of plodders on his own. In fact, Lamberk's own attempts with Joe Cole, Gill and Grealish suggest that is unlikely. So a change in how we set up 1-11 and actual coaching is the only real way to remedy our obvious failings.

Agree and I think the key to changing things would be a target man up front.  As you say our movement is non-existent at times (Robbie Keane when he came on loan was probably the last player we had with good movement in the final third) so we do end up going long quite often.  Kodjia and Hogan aren't the type of forwards who will provide a physical presence up front, so the ball ends up coming straight back. 

I thought some of our most threatening periods of play last season came when Gestede and Kodjia played up front together. 

I disagree the problem isint with the strikers, We have 2 of the best in the division. The problem is the movement and creativity in midfield.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 12:36:30 PM by mrfuse »

Offline Ads

  • prolific poster
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 20647
  • Location: The upside down
  • GM : 13.02.2017
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3037 on: July 23, 2017, 12:40:21 PM »
Terry and Wehlan have to be the key to letting Hourihane hit the box and Lansbury play with that bit more freedom.

Offline passitsideways

  • reserve
  • *
  • Posts: 1125
  • Location: Sydney
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3038 on: July 23, 2017, 12:56:05 PM »
The thing I wonder about RDM is what sort of say he had in the transfers. I mean, Gollini probably his call, but apart from that we bought from the expected player pool (handy PL players + high-performing Championship players).

I mean, if he had made the call to go into the season with the midfield that we had, that limits the sympathy I have for him, but if he didn't really get much of a say on that...

Online Matt Collins

  • coach
  • *
  • Posts: 9551
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3039 on: July 23, 2017, 12:59:27 PM »
None of the players we have signed so far this window go towards our fundamental problems under Bruce last season: lack of movement off the ball and chance creation. 

The two are intertwined, but -in fairness to Bruce- that first issue goes back longer than his tenure (though for all Bobby Di Matteo's shortcomings, as others have pointed out, his side did create chances).

I'm not entirely convinced that a no.10 as Lambert likes to call them or a similar creative outlet can change a team of plodders on his own. In fact, Lamberk's own attempts with Joe Cole, Gill and Grealish suggest that is unlikely. So a change in how we set up 1-11 and actual coaching is the only real way to remedy our obvious failings.

Agree and I think the key to changing things would be a target man up front.  As you say our movement is non-existent at times (Robbie Keane when he came on loan was probably the last player we had with good movement in the final third) so we do end up going long quite often.  Kodjia and Hogan aren't the type of forwards who will provide a physical presence up front, so the ball ends up coming straight back. 

I thought some of our most threatening periods of play last season came when Gestede and Kodjia played up front together. 

I disagree the problem isint with the strikers, We have 2 of the best in the division. The problem is the movement and creativity in midfield.

Midfield definitely the main problem

But a different option to play with his back to goal would be a good option

Oh and Bruce out by the way - we should have had five in that 45 minute game

Offline olaftab

  • prolific poster
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 23519
  • Location: Castle Bromwich
  • GM : 20.04.2017
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3040 on: July 23, 2017, 03:14:11 PM »
As others have undoubtedly said, performance under RDM weren't actually that bad.  We generally dominated games and created loads of chances but our finishing was terrible and/or we were unlucky (how many times did we hit the bar or post under RDM).  That, coupled with the fact we had a clear mental fragility that led to us chucking loads of points away in the last few minutes was very frustrating.

Bruce did well to get rid of that mental fragility and I guess packing the defence was part of that.  But now it's sorted, and with Terry in place, all bar the back four and Jedi should be given the freedom to push forward and create.  We've got the best squad in the league by a mile so should be rightfully twatting most of this division.  The fact we're not doing it in preseason doesn't particularly worry me (I have a theory that our best seasons always follow a terrible pre-season and vice-versa) but the fact we don't look like we're trying to does.
I agree and you have summarised last season very well however not sure about your theory as we have mostly had crap pre-seasons of late and dreadful seasons. ;)

Offline olaftab

  • prolific poster
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 23519
  • Location: Castle Bromwich
  • GM : 20.04.2017
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3041 on: July 23, 2017, 03:16:33 PM »
Terry and Wehlan have to be the key to letting Hourihane hit the box and Lansbury play with that bit more freedom.
Yes but...big but is Bruce as I don't think he can play that way. It's going to be squeeze the life out of opposition and score one more than them season.

Offline PaulWinch again

  • prolific poster
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 34073
  • Location: winchester
  • GM : 06.02.2017
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3042 on: July 23, 2017, 03:52:01 PM »
Team starting to look like it has some shape.

Online tomd2103

  • coach
  • *
  • Posts: 8826
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3043 on: July 23, 2017, 03:59:55 PM »
None of the players we have signed so far this window go towards our fundamental problems under Bruce last season: lack of movement off the ball and chance creation. 

The two are intertwined, but -in fairness to Bruce- that first issue goes back longer than his tenure (though for all Bobby Di Matteo's shortcomings, as others have pointed out, his side did create chances).

I'm not entirely convinced that a no.10 as Lambert likes to call them or a similar creative outlet can change a team of plodders on his own. In fact, Lamberk's own attempts with Joe Cole, Gill and Grealish suggest that is unlikely. So a change in how we set up 1-11 and actual coaching is the only real way to remedy our obvious failings.

Agree and I think the key to changing things would be a target man up front.  As you say our movement is non-existent at times (Robbie Keane when he came on loan was probably the last player we had with good movement in the final third) so we do end up going long quite often.  Kodjia and Hogan aren't the type of forwards who will provide a physical presence up front, so the ball ends up coming straight back. 

I thought some of our most threatening periods of play last season came when Gestede and Kodjia played up front together. 

I disagree the problem isint with the strikers, We have 2 of the best in the division. The problem is the movement and creativity in midfield.

Agree about the midfield, but we could have Aguero or Alexis Sanchez up front for us and they'd still struggle if we were pumping balls up in the air for them to challenge against defenders who suited to that type of game. 

I'm not sure any of signings to date really suggest a move to a different style of play.

Offline old man villa fan

  • international
  • *
  • Posts: 2883
  • Location: Birmingham
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3044 on: July 23, 2017, 04:06:42 PM »
Do you think it was the wrong decision?

I think it was rushed because the club were hoping they could get Bruce in and he'd get us into the playoffs.  I understood it but I think it was a gamble that didn't pay off so with hindsight I think it was the wrong decision because I don't think we'd have finished any lower under RDM than we did anyway.

I agreed with that. RDM would've got us back up to mid table which surely should've been a given considering what we spent towards the end of the August window. Probably why I was disappointed with how we tailed off in the last 6 weeks as if SB had continued the good run and had us finishing 7th or 8th that would've given the Bruce Out Camp last ammunition as RDM certainly wouldn't have managed that.

Di Matteo as predicted from a few at WBA and Chelsea was just a lax manager totally unsuited to what we needed. How he could think the bulk of the awful premier league side would get us back up was laughable. This time last year all we had signed were Gollini, Elphick and Tishbola.

McCormack came in a few days before Sheff Weds with hardly any pre season and it's showed and then we finally started signing decent players like Chester, Kodjia, Adomah and Jedinak but all after the season had started.

At least this summers window has had a professional air about it even if we don't all agree about the players coming in.

We shouldn't forget how long it was before the owner past the fit and proper test and was able to start buying players.