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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 327782 times)

Offline Clark W Griswold

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3015 on: July 20, 2017, 11:08:41 AM »
Do you think it was the wrong decision?

I think it was rushed because the club were hoping they could get Bruce in and he'd get us into the playoffs.  I understood it but I think it was a gamble that didn't pay off so with hindsight I think it was the wrong decision because I don't think we'd have finished any lower under RDM than we did anyway.

That's a bold statement, what were we averaging points wise under RDM, less than 1 per game?

I suppose he could have pulled off a couple of master strokes in Jan but otherwise I think we'd have been in a relegation battle.

Offline old man villa fan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3016 on: July 20, 2017, 11:10:08 AM »
Do you think it was the wrong decision?

I think it was rushed because the club were hoping they could get Bruce in and he'd get us into the playoffs.  I understood it but I think it was a gamble that didn't pay off so with hindsight I think it was the wrong decision because I don't think we'd have finished any lower under RDM than we did anyway.

Agree with that.  We cannot be making the same mistake again if we have a poor start.  If we are off the pace, we have to accept it and look to the following season but start the rebuilding.  We have tried too many short term fixes based on thinking we have to do it now, rather than going back to the drawing board and fixing properly.

Offline Drummond

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3017 on: July 20, 2017, 11:25:32 AM »
So when does this free hit that Bruce seems to have inherited actually end? First it was that he'd inherited RDM's mess (even though RDM inherited a bigger mess), then it was that we couldn't expect to see any progress during the actual season and it was about putting foundations in place, then it was that we'd see the benefits after a pre-season, now its that pre-season is irrelevant. What next?

We'd see the benefits after a pre-season. Pre-season results are irrelevant because they don't matter, though the results and performances when the competition does start do.

That we lost to Shrewsbury isn't ideal but also was as a result of us pairing Hutton and Richards at the back amongst a plethora of other changes, we were solid for the first hour.

First and foremost we have to be strong defensively. We have to be otherwise we can wave bye-bye.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3018 on: July 20, 2017, 11:31:34 AM »
Do you think it was the wrong decision?

I think it was rushed because the club were hoping they could get Bruce in and he'd get us into the playoffs.  I understood it but I think it was a gamble that didn't pay off so with hindsight I think it was the wrong decision because I don't think we'd have finished any lower under RDM than we did anyway.

That's a bold statement, what were we averaging points wise under RDM, less than 1 per game?

I suppose he could have pulled off a couple of master strokes in Jan but otherwise I think we'd have been in a relegation battle.

It was a point a game 1 win, 7 draws and 2 defeats in the 10 league games.

The thing is we dropped 11 points by conceding in the last 5 minutes, that's a shocking record but I just don't think it'd have carried on for the entire season and we were creating chances and bossing teams for large parts of the games before that.  If we'd got rid of him as part of a long term strategy I'd have been fine with it, sacking him to bring in Bruce was a knee-jerk reaction and reminds me too much of the sort of decision making that got us into this position in the first place.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3019 on: July 20, 2017, 11:53:52 AM »
So when does this free hit that Bruce seems to have inherited actually end? First it was that he'd inherited RDM's mess (even though RDM inherited a bigger mess), then it was that we couldn't expect to see any progress during the actual season and it was about putting foundations in place, then it was that we'd see the benefits after a pre-season, now its that pre-season is irrelevant. What next?

We'd see the benefits after a pre-season. Pre-season results are irrelevant because they don't matter, though the results and performances when the competition does start do.

That we lost to Shrewsbury isn't ideal but also was as a result of us pairing Hutton and Richards at the back amongst a plethora of other changes, we were solid for the first hour.

First and foremost we have to be strong defensively. We have to be otherwise we can wave bye-bye.


I don't disagree, I just don't think you go from ending last season with a midfield that is far too deep leaving the strikers isolated and outnumbered to good performances by spending pre-season playing with a midfield that's too deep.  That's what needed to be addressed and the evidence so far is that Bruce either doesn't see it or doesn't care. I totally get that fitness is the most important thing and I couldn't give a shit about the results but I do want to see us trying to practice a style of play that will work for us and that hasn't happened.

Online Ad@m

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3020 on: July 20, 2017, 12:35:09 PM »
As others have undoubtedly said, performance under RDM weren't actually that bad.  We generally dominated games and created loads of chances but our finishing was terrible and/or we were unlucky (how many times did we hit the bar or post under RDM).  That, coupled with the fact we had a clear mental fragility that led to us chucking loads of points away in the last few minutes was very frustrating.

Bruce did well to get rid of that mental fragility and I guess packing the defence was part of that.  But now it's sorted, and with Terry in place, all bar the back four and Jedi should be given the freedom to push forward and create.  We've got the best squad in the league by a mile so should be rightfully twatting most of this division.  The fact we're not doing it in preseason doesn't particularly worry me (I have a theory that our best seasons always follow a terrible pre-season and vice-versa) but the fact we don't look like we're trying to does.

Offline Hookeysmith

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3021 on: July 20, 2017, 01:11:29 PM »
Keep it up Paul.   Bruce needs to be held to account.

He isn't' being held to account by posts on a message board read by a couple of hundred people though is he. This is just a few people arguing the toss and has no more bearing on the situation than a few blokes arguing in the pub.


Apart from a large chorus of boo's at the end of the Walsall shambles by around 3500 fans.

We have no right to promotion or anything else - what I do want is to see a plan. Even if we had implemented a system and the shit players we had could not play to it at least could see what it was and support the Manager when he starts to get the right players.

There is just no evidence that Bruce knows what he wants to do or even his best team or formation.

If we are promoted at the end of the season I will shave off  my beard of 8 years and donate 50 to a charity - I will do this willingly

I just cannot see it happening with this dinosaur in charge and the thought of another season of this mundane, wearisome, boringly defensively minded football makes me completely underwhelmed before the season starts.
We can demand nothing but hope - and he gives me none

« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 01:17:21 PM by Hookeysmith »

Offline AVH87

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3022 on: July 20, 2017, 02:10:11 PM »
It was a point a game 1 win, 7 draws and 2 defeats in the 10 league games.

The thing is we dropped 11 points by conceding in the last 5 minutes, that's a shocking record but I just don't think it'd have carried on for the entire season and we were creating chances and bossing teams for large parts of the games before that.  If we'd got rid of him as part of a long term strategy I'd have been fine with it, sacking him to bring in Bruce was a knee-jerk reaction and reminds me too much of the sort of decision making that got us into this position in the first place.

Semantics but his overall record was 1 win 7 draws 4 defeats (including the Luton shambles), 3 defeats if you go on League results only.

Offline Matt Collins

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3023 on: July 20, 2017, 02:10:55 PM »
I think boro probably have a better squad than us at the moment?

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3024 on: July 20, 2017, 02:29:44 PM »
It was a point a game 1 win, 7 draws and 2 defeats in the 10 league games.

The thing is we dropped 11 points by conceding in the last 5 minutes, that's a shocking record but I just don't think it'd have carried on for the entire season and we were creating chances and bossing teams for large parts of the games before that.  If we'd got rid of him as part of a long term strategy I'd have been fine with it, sacking him to bring in Bruce was a knee-jerk reaction and reminds me too much of the sort of decision making that got us into this position in the first place.

Semantics but his overall record was 1 win 7 draws 4 defeats (including the Luton shambles), 3 defeats if you go on League results only.

The question was about points per game so the cup game had no bearing on it but I'd also missed the Preston game off because I got the date wrong on the search I did so yes, my bad on that one, I thought it was 11 games and I couldn't work out why it was wrong but I wasn't looking at the actual fixtures so it didn't jump out at me so I convinced myself the 11th game I was remembering was the cup.

Online Ad@m

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3025 on: July 20, 2017, 04:06:48 PM »
I think boro probably have a better squad than us at the moment?

I could name two Boro players and they're the two we got rid of, who are definitely not better than we've got.

Offline Gregorys Boy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3026 on: July 23, 2017, 12:49:53 AM »
Same as I ever was.  Results did improve under him and the defence has looked better.  Is just know putting his squad/team together.  Have to question some signings, or some lack of signings.  But to use a cliche I will wait till at least Christmas before judging him.  If we're midtable or struggling around Dec/Jan time then we may have to have a re-think on Bruce.  But given his track record its too early to be getting itchy feet now.

Offline eamonn

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3027 on: July 23, 2017, 12:53:25 AM »
I think boro probably have a better squad than us at the moment?

I could name two Boro players and they're the two we got rid of, who are definitely not better than we've got.

Adam@? That's s no way to talk about yourself.

Offline ROBBO

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3028 on: July 23, 2017, 01:43:12 AM »
I would not give him as long as Xmas, if he hasn't got the team playing decent football by the end of October then get someone else in, tired of giving underperforming managers more time when the time they have had they have wasted.

Offline ozzjim

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3029 on: July 23, 2017, 07:14:36 AM »
Boro on paper look strong. Randolph is another good signing.  Monk is looking a decent manager too. If he plays to Gestede he may well get a lot more out of him than we did, and Adama could take this division apart if he stays there. Look what Monk did with Chris Wood.  This piss take is I think we are stronger everywhere But won't be anywhere near to 2 I fear. Only thing we lack is a couple of genuinely exciting pacey options going forward.  Sadly that is exactly what you need to get up.  Bruce is way too cautious to get us going.