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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 328072 times)

Offline cdbullyweefan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3000 on: July 20, 2017, 08:38:33 AM »
In the context of what went before Bruce, 14 wins in the previous 86 games, in which we had been beaten 50 times, despite hopes to the contrary, perhaps turning round the avalanche of our descent wasn't such an easy task.

While mid-table in the 2nd Division is not acceptable, it has provided respite. Let's see what a pre-season brings in August. If we're not challenging he will be failing. I don't think he will fail.

Sorry, but comparing stats based on results against Premier League teams to those against Championship clubs is quite clearly a nonsense argument.

Offline brian green

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3001 on: July 20, 2017, 08:40:01 AM »
I am not expecting him to be held to account on the bare pre season scorelines of a defeat by Shrewsbury and a draw with Walsall, I am less confident about Bruce's ability as a Championship Houdini now than I was at the end of last season and it was not very high then.   I see the recruitment of Terry, Whelan and Elmohamady as little more than a pre season trolley dash without a discernible team plan.  I want Villa first and foremost to be a far sighted, progressive club respected for all the right reasons.  I want us to be run and managed intelligently.  For me there is more to giving a club your lifelong commitment than the weekly score line.  Others will disagree, that is their right and I respect it completely.  Just don't expect me to be happy about Micah Richards being our captain however briefly.

Offline dave.woodhall

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3002 on: July 20, 2017, 08:45:55 AM »
I wonder (and life's too short to check it out) if there's a correlation between those who said we could go straight through the divisions and those who now want Bruce sacked.

Online Clampy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3003 on: July 20, 2017, 08:51:07 AM »
In the context of what went before Bruce, 14 wins in the previous 86 games, in which we had been beaten 50 times, despite hopes to the contrary, perhaps turning round the avalanche of our descent wasn't such an easy task.

While mid-table in the 2nd Division is not acceptable, it has provided respite. Let's see what a pre-season brings in August. If we're not challenging he will be failing. I don't think he will fail.

Sorry, but comparing stats based on results against Premier League teams to those against Championship clubs is quite clearly a nonsense argument.

I can see ad's point. As a club, we'd forgotten how to win games. We'd become used to losing and we were losing games heavilly and the whole ethos of the club had to change, not just on the pitch.

Offline Matt Collins

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3004 on: July 20, 2017, 08:55:53 AM »
I am not expecting him to be held to account on the bare pre season scorelines of a defeat by Shrewsbury and a draw with Walsall, I am less confident about Bruce's ability as a Championship Houdini now than I was at the end of last season and it was not very high then.   I see the recruitment of Terry, Whelan and Elmohamady as little more than a pre season trolley dash without a discernible team plan.  I want Villa first and foremost to be a far sighted, progressive club respected for all the right reasons.  I want us to be run and managed intelligently.  For me there is more to giving a club your lifelong commitment than the weekly score line.  Others will disagree, that is their right and I respect it completely.  Just don't expect me to be happy about Micah Richards being our captain however briefly.

I think this is the first time we've not done a trolley day in quite a while!

I have a nagging doubt that there are two transfer policies in operation - Bruce's (e.g. terry) and Round's (e.g. Bree). But that's just a doubt and I think that Round and Terry actually respect each other a lot

Offline Ads

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3005 on: July 20, 2017, 08:59:54 AM »
I think you're missing the point. I'm not comparing results, im saying the result in itself is the significant factor; 50 defeats. 50, in 86 games. How many clubs have a record as bleak as that.

Paulie, worth adding that I think you're correct in all you say there. RDM's aloof behaviour was never enough for what is a club that appears to have been an empty husk, with what was left over entirely dysfunctional.

Offline ozzjim

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3006 on: July 20, 2017, 09:05:51 AM »
I think Terry is as much a Round call as Bruce and will be manager inside 2 years.

Offline peter w

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3007 on: July 20, 2017, 09:13:13 AM »
I am not expecting him to be held to account on the bare pre season scorelines of a defeat by Shrewsbury and a draw with Walsall, I am less confident about Bruce's ability as a Championship Houdini now than I was at the end of last season and it was not very high then.   I see the recruitment of Terry, Whelan and Elmohamady as little more than a pre season trolley dash without a discernible team plan.  I want Villa first and foremost to be a far sighted, progressive club respected for all the right reasons.  I want us to be run and managed intelligently.  For me there is more to giving a club your lifelong commitment than the weekly score line.  Others will disagree, that is their right and I respect it completely.  Just don't expect me to be happy about Micah Richards being our captain however briefly.

That's the reason why I would want Bruce gone if we did go up. Sides that tend to stay have a more vibrant team ethic about them. If we go up we will just be a functioning machine. A team of Johnstone - Bree Terry Chester Taylor - Elmohamady Whelan Hourihane Grealish - Kodjia Hogan (or something similar) would go back down. With more of a fight than our last season in the prem, but relegated all the same. We can't have scrappers when we eventually go back and that is what Bruce is building. Its also what gets a lot of teams promoted and the team with best scrappers but with a goalscorer go up or are there or thereabouts.

Offline AV5nobs

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3008 on: July 20, 2017, 09:18:16 AM »
I am not expecting him to be held to account on the bare pre season scorelines of a defeat by Shrewsbury and a draw with Walsall, I am less confident about Bruce's ability as a Championship Houdini now than I was at the end of last season and it was not very high then.   I see the recruitment of Terry, Whelan and Elmohamady as little more than a pre season trolley dash without a discernible team plan.  I want Villa first and foremost to be a far sighted, progressive club respected for all the right reasons.  I want us to be run and managed intelligently.  For me there is more to giving a club your lifelong commitment than the weekly score line.  Others will disagree, that is their right and I respect it completely.  Just don't expect me to be happy about Micah Richards being our captain however briefly.

That's the reason why I would want Bruce gone if we did go up. Sides that tend to stay have a more vibrant team ethic about them. If we go up we will just be a functioning machine. A team of Johnstone - Bree Terry Chester Taylor - Elmohamady Whelan Hourihane Grealish - Kodjia Hogan (or something similar) would go back down. With more of a fight than our last season in the prem, but relegated all the same. We can't have scrappers when we eventually go back and that is what Bruce is building. Its also what gets a lot of teams promoted and the team with best scrappers but with a goalscorer go up or are there or thereabouts.

Totally agree with this, let's just get there first with Bruce given a chance, I actually think Bruce could even step aside if we go up.

Offline cdbullyweefan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3009 on: July 20, 2017, 09:18:54 AM »
I think you're missing the point. I'm not comparing results, im saying the result in itself is the significant factor; 50 defeats. 50, in 86 games. How many clubs have a record as bleak as that.

Paulie, worth adding that I think you're correct in all you say there. RDM's aloof behaviour was never enough for what is a club that appears to have been an empty husk, with what was left over entirely dysfunctional.

Most of which were against far better opposition than we need to beat to get out of this league. Roy Keane is a managerial buffoon but got Sunderland promoted when they managed a lower points total than us the previous year, and had little money.

We spent a fortune. Most of the players who had us at the wrong end of the Premier League have been replaced. If there is still a losing mentality at the club, it's up to the manager to change that.

Now, of course, he was given a bad hand by Di Matteo. Expecting automatic promotion, or even a playoff place, as of right is an unfair expectation.

We should still have got far closer to the top six than we did, though. What worries me most is that we didn't even look ready to dominate this league as a team that harbours ambitions of automatic promotion should do. How many teams did we dominate last season? I can think of only Rotherham, at home, and that's when Di Matteo was still in charge!

Offline cdbullyweefan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3010 on: July 20, 2017, 09:20:41 AM »
I think Terry is as much a Round call as Bruce and will be manager inside 2 years.

Based on what? He's never managed anyone. That would be utter lunacy.

Offline Matt Collins

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3011 on: July 20, 2017, 09:23:22 AM »
I was prepared to accept mid table, but I agree it's a big concern that we weren't looking in better shape by the end

I think Bruce is below par on that front at the moment. If it continues he has to go

If there were an outstanding and available alternative, if we hadn't sacked a manager mid season for three years running, if we hasn't replaced a whole squad twice within two years, if this whole sorry saga hadn't kicked off with MON leaving on the cusp of the season . . .

But those things happened and so I really think it would be a big mistake to get rid now or soon

Online paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3012 on: July 20, 2017, 09:44:29 AM »
In the context of what went before Bruce, 14 wins in the previous 86 games, in which we had been beaten 50 times, despite hopes to the contrary, perhaps turning round the avalanche of our descent wasn't such an easy task.

While mid-table in the 2nd Division is not acceptable, it has provided respite. Let's see what a pre-season brings in August. If we're not challenging he will be failing. I don't think he will fail.

I agree it wasn't an easy task, which is why I didn't call for the guy presented with that task to be sacked after 8 games.

Offline Ads

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3013 on: July 20, 2017, 10:06:04 AM »
Do you think it was the wrong decision?

Online paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #3014 on: July 20, 2017, 10:58:21 AM »
Do you think it was the wrong decision?

I think it was rushed because the club were hoping they could get Bruce in and he'd get us into the playoffs.  I understood it but I think it was a gamble that didn't pay off so with hindsight I think it was the wrong decision because I don't think we'd have finished any lower under RDM than we did anyway.