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Re: Other Games - 2017/18 by Chris Jameson
[Today at 07:21:50 AM]


Re: QPR v Aston Villa Post Match Thread by Matt Collins
[Today at 07:12:14 AM]


Re: Bruce out? by Clampy
[Today at 07:02:54 AM]


Re: Bruce out? by Tugby Villain
[Today at 06:56:04 AM]


Re: Bruce out? by Toronto Villa
[Today at 06:38:45 AM]

Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 320292 times)

Offline old man villa fan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2490 on: May 10, 2017, 05:12:42 PM »
He got QPR promoted in 2014. The game has moved on since then...

Is that the reason they are bringing him in though.

Offline cheltenhamlion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2491 on: May 10, 2017, 06:06:49 PM »
I wrote something for the fanzine a few months ago about Bruce and it still holds firm. Ultimately the keep him or not question boils down to whether you think his shit football is good enough for now to get us out of the League.

But there is also the other longer term issue where, even if we are promoted, those suggesting we stick with him want him potted in the scenario where he does take us up.

So, is it promotion at all costs and bugger the method, or do we take the view we need to go up playing decent football in order to make staying up a lot easier and avoiding that upheaval further down the road?

I would punt him out because I think the latter but neither position is definitively right or wrong.

Offline Ads

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2492 on: May 10, 2017, 06:14:05 PM »
It's success at all costs.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2493 on: May 10, 2017, 07:23:04 PM »
It's success at all costs.

For me it depends not on what the cost is but when it's due.  If we get up but are in a relegation battle because he is kept on and him and the squad he has assembled are totally out of their depth in the premier league then that's not a cost worth paying, which is what I think chelts is getting at.

If it's living with shit football for another season before we get rid and spend big and early to ensure our first year back is safe then fair enough, I'm just not sure that there would be any will for that to happen if he's just got us promoted.

Offline Woofles The Wonder Dog

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2494 on: May 10, 2017, 07:48:23 PM »
He got QPR promoted in 2014. The game has moved on since then...

Chortle.

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2495 on: May 10, 2017, 08:30:58 PM »
Good post Chelts and agree, we need to look at the bigger picture. Taking the questions from your post, here's the verdict from the Lisbon jury:

1. Do you think his shit football is good enough for now to get us out of the League?

No, the only evidence to support keeping him is his promotion record.

2. Is it promotion at all costs and bugger the method?

Ideally not. Promotion is essential and with no method I fear us becoming a yo-yo club.

3. If we are promoted, do we stick with him?


I'm sure some will want to stick with him for the 'stability', giving him a season but his methods are antiquated in the Championship, imagine the horror of them in the PL.

4. Do we need to go up playing decent football in order to make staying up a lot easier and avoiding that upheaval further down the road?

The whole point of spending two seasons in the Championship is to come back stronger, completely cleansed of the dross we've suffered over the last 7 years, refreshed and redesigned ready to use our size and strength to really compete. The thought of getting promoted only to return to be yet again a struggling Bruce/McLeish/Lambertesque club fighting against relegation as we don't know how to do the basics is unthinkable. We may as well just merge with the Albion and the Rags.

Offline Newby

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2496 on: May 10, 2017, 09:14:46 PM »
We still haven't cleansed enough as yet. Turf out Richards and Bacuna, Gabby. Wasters.

Offline Allan C

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2497 on: May 10, 2017, 09:35:11 PM »
It's success at all costs.

For me it depends not on what the cost is but when it's due.  If we get up but are in a relegation battle because he is kept on and him and the squad he has assembled are totally out of their depth in the premier league then that's not a cost worth paying, which is what I think chelts is getting at.

If it's living with shit football for another season before we get rid and spend big and early to ensure our first year back is safe then fair enough, I'm just not sure that there would be any will for that to happen if he's just got us promoted.
100% this

Offline tomd2103

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2498 on: May 10, 2017, 11:34:57 PM »
We still haven't cleansed enough as yet. Turf out Richards and Bacuna, Gabby. Wasters.

Richards has got two years left on his contract. 

Offline The Left Side

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2499 on: May 10, 2017, 11:41:13 PM »
We still haven't cleansed enough as yet. Turf out Richards and Bacuna, Gabby. Wasters.

Richards has got two years left on his contract.

Dear God, that is depressing.

Offline olaftab

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2500 on: May 10, 2017, 11:50:29 PM »
Bruce has averaged exactly 1.5 points per game since he took over. Who was the last manager to do that? O Neill? 46 x 1.5 = 69, still 11 points off the play offs but with everything settled down, manager, players etc do I think we could turn 3 defeats into wins and a couple of draws into wins. Yes. I honestly don't think we'll go up automatically but I think the playoffs are highly likely. If we change the manager again I think it's less likely.
O'Neil 2009-10 1.68 points per game. 2008-9 1.63

Offline alftitimus

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2501 on: May 11, 2017, 04:20:30 AM »
Jose Mourhino once said:
Quote
Look at the Richest Managers....they are the ones sacked the most...

Lambert claims he suggested to Lerner he should be sacked - twice - he wasn't taken up on it, and continued to drive us down until he got his wish.
RDM, Zola - over there - Garde, Tactics Tim.... McClaren at anywhere  :D... Moyes,  etc etc.
All had the 'New-Manager-Bounce', well perhaps not RDM /Zola  ;D

But all mostly, went skew-whiff within a third of their contract time.
They become rich managers, as Jose said, and he certainly lives that belief.

Is the pay-off / P45 a greater goal than hard work ?

I'm begining to believe this ... why are so many managers, not just at us, but throughout UK football such six-month-wonders ?  :(

Bruce sorted things, initially. Then he went Sherwood. WHY ?
I knew he was a boring manager, I mean whoever wanted to watch Wigan or Hull in the Premier ?

More of Mr Xia's total naivety I fear. Oh well, we're heading for a clash with the EFL and FairPlay or whatever it's called now.Bruce's spending is going to be very limited I fear, as his promise of an overhaul is not going to bring in a great deal of money is it?
Because of Mr Xia's gamble, on an instant return, we are actually up that well known creek.

The paddle is Bruce or NOT Bruce.

Dump him, and we are further up the financial creek with payments for everything.

The next manager should have no redundancy clause, no Golden-Pay-Off.

He should believe in us.


Offline Duncan Shaw

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2502 on: May 11, 2017, 07:20:13 AM »


3. If we are promoted, do we stick with him?


I'm sure some will want to stick with him for the 'stability', giving him a season but his methods are antiquated in the Championship, imagine the horror of them in the PL.

But then Pulis has got the Baggies 8th with anti-football!

Online Dave

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2503 on: May 11, 2017, 07:21:41 AM »
The next manager should have no redundancy clause, no Golden-Pay-Off.

He should believe in us.

That's certainly one way to make sure that nobody of any pedigree will want the job.

Online Clampy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2504 on: May 11, 2017, 07:23:25 AM »


3. If we are promoted, do we stick with him?


I'm sure some will want to stick with him for the 'stability', giving him a season but his methods are antiquated in the Championship, imagine the horror of them in the PL.

But then Pulis has got the Baggies 8th with anti-football!

We play miles better footbal than Albion do as well. All they do is rely on set pieces to score half the time.