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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 317084 times)

Offline brian green

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2265 on: May 06, 2017, 09:19:22 AM »
Clampy I respect your view that Bruce is not past his best.  My view is that everything we have seen from him so far strongly suggests that he may well be.

Offline Clampy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2266 on: May 06, 2017, 09:30:18 AM »
Clampy I respect your view that Bruce is not past his best.  My view is that everything we have seen from him so far strongly suggests that he may well be.

I do get why you might think that and i'm disapointed with the way the season panned out as well. I do personally think it's too early to write off the guy's capabilities though.

Offline The Edge

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2267 on: May 06, 2017, 09:31:53 AM »
I can't help but think that if we give Bruce another chance he'll be sacked by Xmas following another disappointing run of results, and that'll be another season wasted.
That's it in a nutshell for me.
Would we be crazy to sack him at this point or crazy to keep him given the awful performances week after week? I honestly don't know the right answer. All we can do is hope for the best and pray that the good Dr don't lose interest. Uncertain and worrying times.

Online sickbeggar

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2268 on: May 06, 2017, 09:38:12 AM »
He was supposed to be the guy with the quick fix. Who guaranteed you promotion. Who we'd all turn a blind eye to the football as long as we went up this year. He's not gonna do it so he's pointless imo. Now that its obvious to even our most delusional fans that a quick return isn't possible, then why not bring in someone who can build a team who won't look like odds-on favourites to return straight back to the championship? And that's Bruce's problem. He (used to) had a good record of promotion to the PL but fuck all idea of what to do when he was there.

Online Chris Smith

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2269 on: May 06, 2017, 09:45:24 AM »
I can't help but think that if we give Bruce another chance he'll be sacked by Xmas following another disappointing run of results, and that'll be another season wasted.

Or we could replace him, and then when his successor is only mid table at Christmas we sack him too. Over the last few years this board has spent much of the time calling for managers to be sacked. They have all been duly dispatched and their replacements have proceeded to do an even worse job. Yet we retain an almost naive faith that all we need to do is keep rolling the dice.

Online sickbeggar

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2270 on: May 06, 2017, 09:54:08 AM »
I can't help but think that if we give Bruce another chance he'll be sacked by Xmas following another disappointing run of results, and that'll be another season wasted.

Or we could replace him, and then when his successor is only mid table at Christmas we sack him too. Over the last few years this board has spent much of the time calling for managers to be sacked. They have all been duly dispatched and their replacements have proceeded to do an even worse job. Yet we retain an almost naive faith that all we need to do is keep rolling the dice.


you make it sound like we chose the managers. Look at the idiots employed by this club in the last 5 years. I can't remember one i was vaguely enthusiastic about us appointing. It's a managerial list of a Div1 side not an established premier club.

Offline KRS

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2271 on: May 06, 2017, 10:03:56 AM »
I can't help but think that if we give Bruce another chance he'll be sacked by Xmas following another disappointing run of results, and that'll be another season wasted.

Or we could replace him, and then when his successor is only mid table at Christmas we sack him too. Over the last few years this board has spent much of the time calling for managers to be sacked. They have all been duly dispatched and their replacements have proceeded to do an even worse job. Yet we retain an almost naive faith that all we need to do is keep rolling the dice.
We all know the mitigating circumstances under Lerner and we all know how we've performed on the pitch over recent years, so is it any wonder why we keep rolling the dice with the succession of managers since MON walked out the door...

Houllier
McLeish
Lambert
Sherwood
Garde
Di Matteo
Bruce

With such an underwhelming list of managers that have been given the opportunity at Villa Park, is it any wonder that they have all failed given the size of the job and the task at hand? Not a single one of those managers was fit for purpose, and unfortunately the question needs to be asked whether or not Bruce is the right man for the job right now.

Online ktvillan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2272 on: May 06, 2017, 10:20:26 AM »
I can't help but think that if we give Bruce another chance he'll be sacked by Xmas following another disappointing run of results, and that'll be another season wasted.

Or we could replace him, and then when his successor is only mid table at Christmas we sack him too. Over the last few years this board has spent much of the time calling for managers to be sacked. They have all been duly dispatched and their replacements have proceeded to do an even worse job. Yet we retain an almost naive faith that all we need to do is keep rolling the dice.

I know what you're saying but that's where the Chief Exec and owner have to do their jobs and do their research, to find a bloody good coach.  Southampton were pretty ruthless in getting rid of Adkins when they had the chance of Pochettino, and subsequently managed to get Koeman.  Levy has been pretty ruthless at Spurs when better options have become available or the currrent encumbent isn't quite up to the mark, including Redknapp who got them into the CL and had a good run there.  At the same time both clubs have developed an excellent production line of young players, presumably by finding effective coaches behind the scenes too.  OK they both had PL status, but the point is sometimes you have to be ruthless and efficient to keep trying to get the best or better.  A manager is only as good as their recent record suggests, and not all managers fit all clubs.  For us Bruce has simply not been good enough.

Online SoccerHQ

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2273 on: May 06, 2017, 10:52:01 AM »
I can't help but think that if we give Bruce another chance he'll be sacked by Xmas following another disappointing run of results, and that'll be another season wasted.

I really can't see us being as low as RDM guided us.

It could be next season around October or November time we're 5th or 6th but SB gets relieved of his duties due to the football still being boring to watch. Plenty of clubs have done that before.

Let's just hope we don't appoint Zola to apparently push us on!

Offline cdbullyweefan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2274 on: May 06, 2017, 10:53:21 AM »
Yes, he got a team promoted last year, but that was last year.  All the evidence, the hard evidence of this season  is that his promotion winning abilities are waning.   Lester Piggott rode nine Epsom Derby winners but never rode a tenth.  It is part of the ageing process.

So you're discounting his previous promotion because it was last season? That's a bit odd.

Di Matteo got promoted in his last full season at this level. Ultimately, it didn't make him a successful Villa manager. Sometimes managers just don't click at certain clubs for whatever reason. It's entirely possible that Bruce will go on to have more success in his career, but he has provided zero evidence that he will bring good times to Villa Park.

Given the financial cliff we fall off should we fail to earn promotion next season, and the poor form we've shown during many months of Bruceball, I'd say it's far more of a gamble to stick with him and just hope for the best, than it would be to replace him.

Online SoccerHQ

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2275 on: May 06, 2017, 10:55:31 AM »
I can't help but think that if we give Bruce another chance he'll be sacked by Xmas following another disappointing run of results, and that'll be another season wasted.
That's it in a nutshell for me.
Would we be crazy to sack him at this point or crazy to keep him given the awful performances week after week? I honestly don't know the right answer. All we can do is hope for the best and pray that the good Dr don't lose interest. Uncertain and worrying times.

We've still been winning games though haven't we? Is it something like 7 wins from the last 12?

It's safe to say if we start next season with 21 points from our first 36 we're not going to be fourth from bottom in this league.

I'd imagine the target pre season would be top 2 so yes if say coming up to xmas we're a good 10 points off that it wouldn't shock me if Xia made a change to try to lift us for the second stage of the season to see if we can go on a run.

I just refuse to believe things will be as poor as this season has been. It's staggering how far off the pace we've been for the vast majority. This really is a rubbish division quality wise and we've done a good job of blending in.

Online Mister E

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2276 on: May 06, 2017, 12:13:14 PM »
I can't help but think that if we give Bruce another chance he'll be sacked by Xmas following another disappointing run of results, and that'll be another season wasted.

Or we could replace him, and then when his successor is only mid table at Christmas we sack him too. Over the last few years this board has spent much of the time calling for managers to be sacked. They have all been duly dispatched and their replacements have proceeded to do an even worse job. Yet we retain an almost naive faith that all we need to do is keep rolling the dice.

I know what you're saying but that's where the Chief Exec and owner have to do their jobs and do their research, to find a bloody good coach.  Southampton were pretty ruthless in getting rid of Adkins when they had the chance of Pochettino, and subsequently managed to get Koeman.  Levy has been pretty ruthless at Spurs when better options have become available or the currrent encumbent isn't quite up to the mark, including Redknapp who got them into the CL and had a good run there.  At the same time both clubs have developed an excellent production line of young players, presumably by finding effective coaches behind the scenes too.  OK they both had PL status, but the point is sometimes you have to be ruthless and efficient to keep trying to get the best or better.  A manager is only as good as their recent record suggests, and not all managers fit all clubs.  For us Bruce has simply not been good enough.
For me, ktv, you've hit the nail on the head here.
What has the Good Doctor and Wyness and Round done to develop a strong club infrastructure and a database of the right potential recruits? By what criteria will they decide that enough is enough for SB? Will the successor have been identified, properly researched and approached?
It's these sorts of things - not the budget - that define the club's future and capability to compete, whatever league they're in.

Offline mr underhill

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2277 on: May 06, 2017, 12:36:55 PM »
top ten  finish was a minimum for me this season  - the odds are we will finish below that.

Offline Ads

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2278 on: May 06, 2017, 12:55:40 PM »
He's not played the style he wants to all season as we don't have the balance for 442. Green and Adomah are the only genuine wingers we've got.

There was also different pressures and objecrives; at the start he had the stop the rot and make us hard to beat. It then became necessary to try and rectify some glaring holes and although we bought well, we did far too much in January and that knocked the wind from the grinding progress we'd made. Post Burton, the season has gone and a Gabby inspired 30 minutes, nothing much has happened of positive note since.

I believe he deserves and needs the pre-season to try and find a means of playing that isn't reactive to the circumstances we find ourselves in.

I'd like to see a pre-season that isn't a hastily cobbled together plan, but something we do with care. Goalkeeper, centre half, left winger and so on. Additions and some pruning of the chaff.

Automatic promotion has to be the aim.

Online levico

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2279 on: May 06, 2017, 01:37:59 PM »
Going back to the argument that Bruce may have peaked or lost his ability. I think there's some truth in that although I believe it is down to the fact that the Championship has moved on and Bruce hasnt moved with it. Specifically, I've noticed that the clubs that have faired well and against who we have struggled, play with tempo.

Bruce's static, passive and defensive style will never get us even into the top ten.

He must change or go.