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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 325136 times)

Online Dave

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2220 on: May 04, 2017, 02:45:11 PM »
Steve Bruce seemed to hit a bit of a purple patch at Wigan where he signed a few really good Latin American players, who went on to bigger and better things, like Valencia at Man U.  Were those down to him, as all he's managed for us so far are very obvious vanilla signings.

Valencia wasn't. He was manager when he joined Wigan permanently, but Valencia was already at the club with an agreement in place having been brought in by Paul Jewell.

Offline Risso

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2221 on: May 04, 2017, 02:52:55 PM »
Steve Bruce seemed to hit a bit of a purple patch at Wigan where he signed a few really good Latin American players, who went on to bigger and better things, like Valencia at Man U.  Were those down to him, as all he's managed for us so far are very obvious vanilla signings.

Valencia wasn't. He was manager when he joined Wigan permanently, but Valencia was already at the club with an agreement in place having been brought in by Paul Jewell.

Yes, you're right there, but then I think he did bring in the likes of Palacios and Rodallega.  Didn't he also get a good season out of Zaki as well?  You get the general point though I'm sure, for a while he did seem to have found some decent overseas talent.  I was just wondering if this was all by himself, or from tips from people like Ferguson who wanted to see how the players got on at a smaller club first.

Online Dave

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2222 on: May 04, 2017, 03:15:17 PM »
Steve Bruce seemed to hit a bit of a purple patch at Wigan where he signed a few really good Latin American players, who went on to bigger and better things, like Valencia at Man U.  Were those down to him, as all he's managed for us so far are very obvious vanilla signings.

Valencia wasn't. He was manager when he joined Wigan permanently, but Valencia was already at the club with an agreement in place having been brought in by Paul Jewell.

Yes, you're right there, but then I think he did bring in the likes of Palacios and Rodallega.  Didn't he also get a good season out of Zaki as well?  You get the general point though I'm sure, for a while he did seem to have found some decent overseas talent.  I was just wondering if this was all by himself, or from tips from people like Ferguson who wanted to see how the players got on at a smaller club first.

If I remember, Palacios was a Wenger recommendation while he was at Blues who he then snapped up when he wound up at Wigan.

I see the point you're making and broadly agree with it. He seems to be similar to the likes of Hughes and Moyes - he can turn scraps into gems, but when you add zeroes to his transfer budget the returns diminish.

As others have alluded to earlier, I'm not sure how much he actually wanted the likes of Hogan and Hourihane. He certainly doesn't seem all that bothered about using then properly.

Online paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2223 on: May 04, 2017, 03:18:12 PM »
That's my problem with Bruce, whenever he's had big money to use he's not really known what to do and has signed better players but treated them as if they're the cloggers he signed at smaller clubs so he actually does worse because he's not only not getting the quality out of the players he has he's also using them in a role where the cheaper clogger would be more effective.

Online Clampy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2224 on: May 04, 2017, 03:43:36 PM »
I am concerned about people thinking making the play-offs is promotion.  It is still only one chance in four, with a slight variance for relative form or luck.

We have to be targeting top two.

It's not promotion but it's a bonus chance of promotion, hence why it's called the play offs.

Online Ad@m

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2225 on: May 04, 2017, 07:50:48 PM »
I remember his first game in charge where Villa players were pressing the opposition all over the pitch and I thought at last a manager has got them committed, it only lasted one game then back to the status quo.

Both Lansbury and Hourihane did this when they first arrived and then slowly they started to go further and further back

It HAS to be the tactics they are told by the Manager and coaches

Absolutely.   But what I don't get is that we've had this effect on players for the best part of the last decade.  Since we lost Young, Barry and Milner, name five players who've improved in their time with us - Benteke, erm...

What's so wrong with the coaching set up that it makes players worse, regardless of the coaching team involved?!

Offline peter w

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2226 on: May 04, 2017, 07:57:03 PM »
I remember his first game in charge where Villa players were pressing the opposition all over the pitch and I thought at last a manager has got them committed, it only lasted one game then back to the status quo.

Both Lansbury and Hourihane did this when they first arrived and then slowly they started to go further and further back

It HAS to be the tactics they are told by the Manager and coaches

Absolutely.   But what I don't get is that we've had this effect on players for the best part of the last decade.  Since we lost Young, Barry and Milner, name five players who've improved in their time with us - Benteke, erm...

What's so wrong with the coaching set up that it makes players worse, regardless of the coaching team involved?!

Delph...

Online Ad@m

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2227 on: May 04, 2017, 08:05:03 PM »
I remember his first game in charge where Villa players were pressing the opposition all over the pitch and I thought at last a manager has got them committed, it only lasted one game then back to the status quo.

Both Lansbury and Hourihane did this when they first arrived and then slowly they started to go further and further back

It HAS to be the tactics they are told by the Manager and coaches

Absolutely.   But what I don't get is that we've had this effect on players for the best part of the last decade.  Since we lost Young, Barry and Milner, name five players who've improved in their time with us - Benteke, erm...

What's so wrong with the coaching set up that it makes players worse, regardless of the coaching team involved?!

Delph...

He's dead to me, but I take your point.  Two...

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2228 on: May 04, 2017, 08:13:05 PM »
Steve Bruce seemed to hit a bit of a purple patch at Wigan where he signed a few really good Latin American players, who went on to bigger and better things, like Valencia at Man U.  Were those down to him, as all he's managed for us so far are very obvious vanilla signings.

Valencia wasn't. He was manager when he joined Wigan permanently, but Valencia was already at the club with an agreement in place having been brought in by Paul Jewell.

Yes, you're right there, but then I think he did bring in the likes of Palacios and Rodallega.  Didn't he also get a good season out of Zaki as well?  You get the general point though I'm sure, for a while he did seem to have found some decent overseas talent.  I was just wondering if this was all by himself, or from tips from people like Ferguson who wanted to see how the players got on at a smaller club first.

If I remember, Palacios was a Wenger recommendation while he was at Blues who he then snapped up when he wound up at Wigan.

I see the point you're making and broadly agree with it. He seems to be similar to the likes of Hughes and Moyes - he can turn scraps into gems, but when you add zeroes to his transfer budget the returns diminish.

As others have alluded to earlier, I'm not sure how much he actually wanted the likes of Hogan and Hourihane. He certainly doesn't seem all that bothered about using then properly.

Didn't he sign a few more at Sunderland....I'm pretty sure a couple of Paraguayans turned up and they weren't great successes so he seems to have gone cold in signing players from that part of the world now.

You're right in that he can sign some gems in all the big money buys....probably Hull's best value signing in recent times has been Sam Clucas who's had a terrific season. SB also signed Moses Odubajo who's a good player but been injured all season.

Online Clampy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2229 on: May 04, 2017, 08:40:34 PM »
Didn't he sign Harry Maguire as well? Another good pick up judging by the season he's had.

Offline Sexual Ealing

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2230 on: May 04, 2017, 09:00:34 PM »
This is a genuine question because I don't know the answer, but his insistence that 442 is what gets promoted in this league - do any of the promoted or playoff teams use it?

And even if they do, and he he wants to use it with us, why is he saying that we only need one or two signings?

It looks to me that he needs to go back to a blues-level club to do what he does well.

Offline old man villa fan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2231 on: May 04, 2017, 09:39:47 PM »
I am concerned about people thinking making the play-offs is promotion.  It is still only one chance in four, with a slight variance for relative form or luck.

We have to be targeting top two.

It's not promotion but it's a bonus chance of promotion, hence why it's called the play offs.

Obviously.

So do you believe that we have to be targeting top two and, if so, do you think we are capable of this as we now stand?

Offline Allan C

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2232 on: May 04, 2017, 09:57:15 PM »
I remember his first game in charge where Villa players were pressing the opposition all over the pitch and I thought at last a manager has got them committed, it only lasted one game then back to the status quo.

Both Lansbury and Hourihane did this when they first arrived and then slowly they started to go further and further back

It HAS to be the tactics they are told by the Manager and coaches

Absolutely.   But what I don't get is that we've had this effect on players for the best part of the last decade.  Since we lost Young, Barry and Milner, name five players who've improved in their time with us - Benteke, erm...

What's so wrong with the coaching set up that it makes players worse, regardless of the coaching team involved?!
The difference is IMO that the players bought since those three were sold have been substandard to the ones they were replacing. With Bruce, the players he has bought were of a higher standard but appear to have deteriorated under him

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2233 on: May 04, 2017, 10:03:24 PM »
This is a genuine question because I don't know the answer, but his insistence that 442 is what gets promoted in this league - do any of the promoted or playoff teams use it?

And even if they do, and he he wants to use it with us, why is he saying that we only need one or two signings?

It looks to me that he needs to go back to a blues-level club to do what he does well.

Brighton play it.

Sheff Weds also.

Offline Sexual Ealing

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2234 on: May 04, 2017, 10:17:56 PM »
This is a genuine question because I don't know the answer, but his insistence that 442 is what gets promoted in this league - do any of the promoted or playoff teams use it?

And even if they do, and he he wants to use it with us, why is he saying that we only need one or two signings?

It looks to me that he needs to go back to a blues-level club to do what he does well.

Brighton play it.

Sheff Weds also.

Thanks. I did think that Brighton might as I was typing.

I think that his prescriptive thinking is still a bit worrying.