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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 320301 times)

Offline Ad@m

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2175 on: May 02, 2017, 05:41:22 PM »
I don't think there will be a vacancy but if hypothetically we replace him how long do you give his successor before he too is faces trial by forum? Given that he starts on a level with everyone else, not in the bottom 6 like Bruce did, should we say not in the top 6 by December and we do it all again?

Exactly.  We've done the young inexperienced manager thing far too many times in the past five years with Lambert, Sherwood, Garde, and RDM so why is there such a clamour for us to try it again?

No one, and I mean no one, is going to fix the mess that our club got to in six months.  Yes the football has been crap but give the guy a chance.  He's got proven pedigree.

For all the bleating about not wanting to end up like Leeds, isn't sacking their manager every six months sort of their trademark?

Online kippaxvilla2

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2176 on: May 02, 2017, 05:49:46 PM »
Bruce isn't going anywhere this summer except on his holidays.

Offline chrisw1

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2177 on: May 02, 2017, 06:08:22 PM »
I have for most the season been in the 'keep him' camp.  His record is fantastic and we just need promotion as soon a possible, for me style is very much secondary at this point in time.  I really thought appointing Bruce was the most nailed on way of securing promotion this season or next, but, I have been massively disapointed by the performances towards the end of the season.  Even during our good run we never really looked like a dominant team.  I also can't believe how little Calderwood seems to have brought to the party.

I still think there's a decent chance he will turn it around next year and get us right up there, but the way I'm feeling is that if we could get Smith I'd be very tempted.

Offline cheltenhamlion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2178 on: May 02, 2017, 06:26:28 PM »
The success has been over a long period of time but based on the same style, a style that is now not compatible with the way football should be played today.

He won promotion from the Championship last season. Has the game really moved on that much in the last 12 months?

You missed the point, that he will not change his style, a style that is year by year becoming out dated.  As I said, his success is his weakness in that he has not developed as a manager.  12 months ago Hull scraped promotion through the play-offs and won in the final, when arguably they were not the better team. Each time he has been promoted, he has been left with a team that was ill-equipped for the PL.

And yet, having taken Hull up last year, they stand a reasonable chance of staying up despite being odds on to be relegated at the start of the year.

Criticise his style all you like, I have plenty of times this season, but there's simply no evidence whatsoever to suggest he's lost the ability to get teams promoted from this division.

Other than failing miserably to get a team promoted this season?

I'm prepared to cut him some slack given he took over a side one place above the relegation zone with a third of the season already gone.  Jose Mourinho wouldn't have got us promoted from that position.

A third of the season? We had played ten matches and were 9 points off the play offs at that point.

I can cut him some slack for an unfit and disjointed squad, but that takes it too far. He has failed in his own recruitment in the same way as his predessor. It's a no from me.

Offline cheltenhamlion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2179 on: May 02, 2017, 06:27:58 PM »
The success has been over a long period of time but based on the same style, a style that is now not compatible with the way football should be played today.

He won promotion from the Championship last season. Has the game really moved on that much in the last 12 months?

You missed the point, that he will not change his style, a style that is year by year becoming out dated.  As I said, his success is his weakness in that he has not developed as a manager.  12 months ago Hull scraped promotion through the play-offs and won in the final, when arguably they were not the better team. Each time he has been promoted, he has been left with a team that was ill-equipped for the PL.

And yet, having taken Hull up last year, they stand a reasonable chance of staying up despite being odds on to be relegated at the start of the year.

Criticise his style all you like, I have plenty of times this season, but there's simply no evidence whatsoever to suggest he's lost the ability to get teams promoted from this division.

Apart from the shit job he has done of getting us up?

Offline Allan C

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2180 on: May 02, 2017, 06:33:16 PM »
I don't think there will be a vacancy but if hypothetically we replace him how long do you give his successor before he too is faces trial by forum? Given that he starts on a level with everyone else, not in the bottom 6 like Bruce did, should we say not in the top 6 by December and we do it all again?

Exactly.  We've done the young inexperienced manager thing far too many times in the past five years with Lambert, Sherwood, Garde, and RDM so why is there such a clamour for us to try it again?

No one, and I mean no one, is going to fix the mess that our club got to in six months.  Yes the football has been crap but give the guy a chance.  He's got proven pedigree.

For all the bleating about not wanting to end up like Leeds, isn't sacking their manager every six months sort of their trademark?
A pedigree for what?? Producing teams that play archaic football that inevitably struggle when they get into the premier league?? As for Leeds, havnt the sackings lead them to the right man?? Keeping Bruce for stability's sake will lead to more of this horrendous football. Do you like watching Hull play in claret and blue shirts??

Offline cheltenhamlion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2181 on: May 02, 2017, 06:33:32 PM »
Get rid! Comes across as a nice guy but he's a truly awful manager. Turgid football - bereft of ideas and tactical nous. We can't win away, can't dominate a match and continues to play players out of their natural and best position (that he's bought?!). 30 games in we don't look like a team and I've seen plenty. The quality of football is closer to Sunday league football than that of the Premiership.

Yep.

Offline cheltenhamlion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2182 on: May 02, 2017, 06:41:27 PM »
I don't think there will be a vacancy but if hypothetically we replace him how long do you give his successor before he too is faces trial by forum? Given that he starts on a level with everyone else, not in the bottom 6 like Bruce did, should we say not in the top 6 by December and we do it all again?

Exactly.  We've done the young inexperienced manager thing far too many times in the past five years with Lambert, Sherwood, Garde, and RDM so why is there such a clamour for us to try it again?

No one, and I mean no one, is going to fix the mess that our club got to in six months.  Yes the football has been crap but give the guy a chance.  He's got proven pedigree.

For all the bleating about not wanting to end up like Leeds, isn't sacking their manager every six months sort of their trademark?
A pedigree for what?? Producing teams that play archaic football that inevitably struggle when they get into the premier league?? As for Leeds, havnt the sackings lead them to the right man?? Keeping Bruce for stability's sake will lead to more of this horrendous football. Do you like watching Hull play in claret and blue shirts??

Brighton, Burnley, Watford, Southampton and Swansea have not been bastions of sticking with/keeping their man until it worked for them or they felt a change was more appropriate.

It hasn't done them much harm (Swansea fucking around with people not on message the last year or so aside).

The chap at Hull has turned them from the Bruce mould functional goal stealers they were under Phelan into a proper football team in about 20 minutes on the training pitch.

We don't have to play as Bruce is comfortable with to get out of this league. And it makes it ten times worse to change again if you do go up.

It's still a no from me.

Offline ktvillan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2183 on: May 02, 2017, 06:44:55 PM »
I don't think there will be a vacancy but if hypothetically we replace him how long do you give his successor before he too is faces trial by forum? Given that he starts on a level with everyone else, not in the bottom 6 like Bruce did, should we say not in the top 6 by December and we do it all again?

Depends on the signs of progress for me.  If we are playing good football at least in patches, showing some tactical nous, the players are looking fit and interested and the team shape makes the most of the players, scoring goals and not gifting them too often etc. etc. then not being in the top 6 by December would not mean we get rid, as long as were not miles off.  It's about the direction we're heading in.  We're standing still at best under Bruce. 

And I agree with Hookey, that article from when he was Sunderland boss highlights all his flaws,  makes you wonder how he has got teams promoted so often (poor quality league?) and makes it obvious why he's never really succeeded at the higher level.  Like some clubs are good enough to challenge at Championship level but not good enough for the PL, you can say the same of some managers.  Bruce is one of those in-betweener managers along with Warnock.  And as better coaches are coming in to the Championship, they will find it harder and harder to challenge at the top end.

Offline cheltenhamlion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2184 on: May 02, 2017, 07:08:14 PM »
Every single one of the teams in the play offs has a young foreign boss who plays reasonable football. Every last one of them.

Online andyh

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2185 on: May 02, 2017, 07:42:27 PM »
I don't think there will be a vacancy but if hypothetically we replace him how long do you give his successor before he too is faces trial by forum? Given that he starts on a level with everyone else, not in the bottom 6 like Bruce did, should we say not in the top 6 by December and we do it all again?
And that's precisely it.
This is forum, a place for opinions, bullshit and alternative views (and facts).
dont get too wound up by it.

Offline LeeB

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2186 on: May 02, 2017, 07:50:29 PM »
Every single one of the teams in the play offs has a young foreign boss who plays reasonable football. Every last one of them.

And the team at the top have Chris Hughton. Who failed to get promoted last season behind Steve Bruce.

I'm less comfortable with looking for a 'type' of manager than judging each contender on merit. That path I think would lead to disaster.

Online Clampy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2187 on: May 02, 2017, 07:56:22 PM »
I don't think there will be a vacancy but if hypothetically we replace him how long do you give his successor before he too is faces trial by forum? Given that he starts on a level with everyone else, not in the bottom 6 like Bruce did, should we say not in the top 6 by December and we do it all again?
And that's precisely it.
This is forum, a place for opinions, bullshit and alternative views (and facts).
dont get too wound up by it.

I don't think Chris is getting wound up. He's making a valid point.

Offline TheTimVilla

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2188 on: May 02, 2017, 07:58:55 PM »
I don't think there will be a vacancy but if hypothetically we replace him how long do you give his successor before he too is faces trial by forum? Given that he starts on a level with everyone else, not in the bottom 6 like Bruce did, should we say not in the top 6 by December and we do it all again?
I think we have to either go for it completely and give a new man all of the summer to choose his players and formation... or we give Bruce all summer and hope he trains them on possession and attacking.

In direct answer to your question, we have to be top six and not far off top two as a minimum in December.

Offline four fornicholl

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2189 on: May 02, 2017, 08:06:04 PM »
I don't think there will be a vacancy but if hypothetically we replace him how long do you give his successor before he too is faces trial by forum? Given that he starts on a level with everyone else, not in the bottom 6 like Bruce did, should we say not in the top 6 by December and we do it all again?
And that's precisely it.
This is forum, a place for opinions, bullshit and alternative views (and facts).
dont get too wound up by it.

I don't think Chris is getting wound up. He's making a valid point.
Roy Race, when he turned to management, didn't seem to struggle too much.