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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 316463 times)

Offline olaftab

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2145 on: May 01, 2017, 08:41:08 PM »
We are a bigger club than Bournemouh obviously, but are we currently more attractive to their manager is the big question. As much as it pains me to say i'm not sure. By the end of the season they will be have generated what, 50m+ more than we have? They'll be doing the same next season as well. I have a feeling they can match any wages we would offer him for example. If we don't get out this crap division and very soon we are going to be left behind by much smaller clubs simply because of the money they are earning in the PL each year.
The only smaller clubs who have overtaken us in the entire history of the game are Chelsea and Man City. It will take some massive feat for anyone else to do so in the near future.

Offline olaftab

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2146 on: May 01, 2017, 08:42:35 PM »
What can Eddie Howe do to at Aston Villa to enhance his career that he hasn't done at Bournemouth already.

His next step should be top 6 club & then push for England job .

Win a major trophy, qualify for Europe, qualify for the Champions League.

Which he could do with Bournemouth already established in the Premier League they have as much realistic hope to do that as we currently do .
Luke shut up😊

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2147 on: May 01, 2017, 08:43:19 PM »
May be wrong but I can't help but think that 17/18 is going to be another write off season. I don't think Wyness and Xia are the tough guys some think they are. They'll stick by Bruce, support him with further funding and eventually sacking too late in the season to make any difference.
Wyness is unconvincing

I was very concerned when we appointed Wyness due to him trying to move Everton outside of Liverpool and the stories I'd read about that episode but at Villa I can't really fault him. Yes, he appointed Bruce but he did at least try to bring in or at least speak to better managers. I think he's more ruthless than we imagine. At least that's the straw I'm clinging to this summer. Bruce has been the first manager in years to be given a rolling one year contract. That's a bit of smart business in my book.

Online Richard E

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2148 on: May 01, 2017, 08:46:44 PM »
Bournemouth can't defend to save their lives so if we ever appointed Eddie Howe he'd need to bring a decent defensive coach with him.

Offline Villa in Denmark

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2149 on: May 01, 2017, 08:47:26 PM »
Ah well Dyche is a bit more realistic I think.

He nearly left Burnley for Sunderland in summer 2015 but Advocaat did a u turn.

I do think there's more chance of attracting him than Eddie Howe and his style would suit our squad I reckon.

I think you have to remember that Howe has spent most of his sporting life at Bournemouth so the club has a huge emotional pull for him.

We're all Villa nuts on this site but you have to remember anyone who hasn't played for us won't have the same feeling unless they supported us growing up. I'm sure Eddie Howe respects us as a club but he isn't going to suddenly quit Bournemouth if we come calling in the summer imo. Maybe if we get back and establish ourselves in the prem.
Hows Olof getting on?

I can't be bothered to look up how he's done, but however it's gone it's the Swedish second division. You might as well ask PWS for a reference for the Bromsgrove manager.

Offline Risso

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2150 on: May 01, 2017, 08:48:27 PM »
The success has been over a long period of time but based on the same style, a style that is now not compatible with the way football should be played today.

He won promotion from the Championship last season. Has the game really moved on that much in the last 12 months?

You missed the point, that he will not change his style, a style that is year by year becoming out dated.  As I said, his success is his weakness in that he has not developed as a manager.  12 months ago Hull scraped promotion through the play-offs and won in the final, when arguably they were not the better team. Each time he has been promoted, he has been left with a team that was ill-equipped for the PL.

And yet, having taken Hull up last year, they stand a reasonable chance of staying up despite being odds on to be relegated at the start of the year.

Criticise his style all you like, I have plenty of times this season, but there's simply no evidence whatsoever to suggest he's lost the ability to get teams promoted from this division.

Other than failing miserably to get a team promoted this season?

Offline Ad@m

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2151 on: May 01, 2017, 08:51:47 PM »
The success has been over a long period of time but based on the same style, a style that is now not compatible with the way football should be played today.

He won promotion from the Championship last season. Has the game really moved on that much in the last 12 months?

You missed the point, that he will not change his style, a style that is year by year becoming out dated.  As I said, his success is his weakness in that he has not developed as a manager.  12 months ago Hull scraped promotion through the play-offs and won in the final, when arguably they were not the better team. Each time he has been promoted, he has been left with a team that was ill-equipped for the PL.

And yet, having taken Hull up last year, they stand a reasonable chance of staying up despite being odds on to be relegated at the start of the year.

Criticise his style all you like, I have plenty of times this season, but there's simply no evidence whatsoever to suggest he's lost the ability to get teams promoted from this division.

Other than failing miserably to get a team promoted this season?

I'm prepared to cut him some slack given he took over a side one place above the relegation zone with a third of the season already gone.  Jose Mourinho wouldn't have got us promoted from that position.

Offline olaftab

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2152 on: May 01, 2017, 08:58:01 PM »
And there you have it Rudy.  It is the perpetuation of the Lambert Theorem of Reduced Expectations.
Credit for initial publication of that theorem must go to Professor O'Leary in the early part  of this century.

Offline PeterWithesShin

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2153 on: May 01, 2017, 08:59:52 PM »
We are a bigger club than Bournemouh obviously, but are we currently more attractive to their manager is the big question. As much as it pains me to say i'm not sure. By the end of the season they will be have generated what, 50m+ more than we have? They'll be doing the same next season as well. I have a feeling they can match any wages we would offer him for example. If we don't get out this crap division and very soon we are going to be left behind by much smaller clubs simply because of the money they are earning in the PL each year.
The only smaller clubs who have overtaken us in the entire history of the game are Chelsea and Man City. It will take some massive feat for anyone else to do so in the near future.

And Liverpool , ManUtd, Arsenal. Probably Spurs now as well. But that wasn't the point. It's not about them becoming bigger but leaving us behind as they are generating 50m+ a year more than us every season we are outside the top division. By then end of next season think how much more money will have gone to Bournemouth, Palace, Watford, Bitters etc. It's going to be over 100m. If that's not in danger of leaving us behind I don't know what is.

Offline LukeJames

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2154 on: May 01, 2017, 09:05:22 PM »
The success has been over a long period of time but based on the same style, a style that is now not compatible with the way football should be played today.

He won promotion from the Championship last season. Has the game really moved on that much in the last 12 months?

You missed the point, that he will not change his style, a style that is year by year becoming out dated.  As I said, his success is his weakness in that he has not developed as a manager.  12 months ago Hull scraped promotion through the play-offs and won in the final, when arguably they were not the better team. Each time he has been promoted, he has been left with a team that was ill-equipped for the PL.

And yet, having taken Hull up last year, they stand a reasonable chance of staying up despite being odds on to be relegated at the start of the year.

Criticise his style all you like, I have plenty of times this season, but there's simply no evidence whatsoever to suggest he's lost the ability to get teams promoted from this division.

Other than failing miserably to get a team promoted this season?

I'm prepared to cut him some slack given he took over a side one place above the relegation zone with a third of the season already gone.  Jose Mourinho wouldn't have got us promoted from that position.

Bloody hek you make it sound like he was tasked with an impossible job, we were 9 points off the play offs with 34 games to play. Lets not try and colour it over, he was brought in with the sole aim of promotion and he has failed fantastically.

Offline Ad@m

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2155 on: May 01, 2017, 09:05:28 PM »
We are a bigger club than Bournemouh obviously, but are we currently more attractive to their manager is the big question. As much as it pains me to say i'm not sure. By the end of the season they will be have generated what, 50m+ more than we have? They'll be doing the same next season as well. I have a feeling they can match any wages we would offer him for example. If we don't get out this crap division and very soon we are going to be left behind by much smaller clubs simply because of the money they are earning in the PL each year.
The only smaller clubs who have overtaken us in the entire history of the game are Chelsea and Man City. It will take some massive feat for anyone else to do so in the near future.

And Liverpool , ManUtd, Arsenal. Probably Spurs now as well. But that wasn't the point. It's not about them becoming bigger but leaving us behind as they are generating 50m+ a year more than us every season we are outside the top division. By then end of next season think how much more money will have gone to Bournemouth, Palace, Watford, Bitters etc. It's going to be over 100m. If that's not in danger of leaving us behind I don't know what is.

But what does that mean though?  All that money will go straight through the club and it to the players' pockets.  Players who would be straight out the door if they got relegated.

And what do the clubs get for this expenditure?  A top 17 finish if they're lucky.

It'll take years for the likes of the clubs mentioned to catch us up - look at their grounds, training facilities, global fan base, etc, etc.  Even after years in the wilderness, Forest, Leeds, and Wednesday are all bigger than those mentioned.  Jesus, even Sheffield United still get bigger crowds, in the 3rd division!

I totally agree we need to get back up ASAP but if we have to cut our cloth accordingly if we don't it's not going to be the end of the Villa.  We'll still be a huge club, just in the wrong division.

Offline four fornicholl

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2156 on: May 01, 2017, 09:31:16 PM »
Ah well Dyche is a bit more realistic I think.

He nearly left Burnley for Sunderland in summer 2015 but Advocaat did a u turn.

I do think there's more chance of attracting him than Eddie Howe and his style would suit our squad I reckon.

I think you have to remember that Howe has spent most of his sporting life at Bournemouth so the club has a huge emotional pull for him.

We're all Villa nuts on this site but you have to remember anyone who hasn't played for us won't have the same feeling unless they supported us growing up. I'm sure Eddie Howe respects us as a club but he isn't going to suddenly quit Bournemouth if we come calling in the summer imo. Maybe if we get back and establish ourselves in the prem.
Hows Olof getting on?

I can't be bothered to look up how he's done, but however it's gone it's the Swedish second division. You might as well ask PWS for a reference for the Bromsgrove manager.
Everybody starts somewhere.

Offline Newby

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2157 on: May 01, 2017, 09:42:21 PM »
The club have had to rush their last two appointments because of the takeover and subsequent sacking of RDM. Whilst I think they might have tried going for manager's already employed, Bruce was probably the best choice at the time. Now, Wyness, Round and Tony might be in a better position to approach those manager's again. I hope they have already sounded out and we find out how ruthless they can be. Like others, the most I'd give Bruce is to October. That said, we will miss out on others if we take that road again. Personally, I see no evidence that Bruce has the tools to put this right and would sack him after the Brighton game. I wanted Hughton previously but that ship has sailed. I want them to be creative this time. Take their time.

Offline Villa in Denmark

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2158 on: May 01, 2017, 10:05:24 PM »
Ah well Dyche is a bit more realistic I think.

He nearly left Burnley for Sunderland in summer 2015 but Advocaat did a u turn.

I do think there's more chance of attracting him than Eddie Howe and his style would suit our squad I reckon.

I think you have to remember that Howe has spent most of his sporting life at Bournemouth so the club has a huge emotional pull for him.

We're all Villa nuts on this site but you have to remember anyone who hasn't played for us won't have the same feeling unless they supported us growing up. I'm sure Eddie Howe respects us as a club but he isn't going to suddenly quit Bournemouth if we come calling in the summer imo. Maybe if we get back and establish ourselves in the prem.
Hows Olof getting on?

I can't be bothered to look up how he's done, but however it's gone it's the Swedish second division. You might as well ask PWS for a reference for the Bromsgrove manager.
Everybody starts somewhere.
They do indeed.

If he can prove himself several levels higher he's relevant for consideration.

As it is his only qualification appears to be he used to play for us and is on record with his disdain for that lot down the road.

Offline KRS

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2159 on: May 01, 2017, 10:17:50 PM »
The small yet simple fact that they have Bruce on a rolling contract gives me hope that they would be more inclined to get rid of him in the summer than had he been on a fixed term contract. Surely they can also see that performances and results on the pitch aren't quite what they should be, and I hope that blind faith in a manager that has proved himself with promotions in the past doesn't cloud their judgement.