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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 319010 times)

Offline Nastylee

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2055 on: May 01, 2017, 09:31:31 AM »
There's no chance Bruce will be given the axe. That said, he needs to hit the ground running. Any repeat of the form that RDM displayed and things will be getting very nasty after ten games. He deserves the chance having inherited a squad mid-season but they'll be no excuses in six months if we're not among the pace setters.

Offline Taylor

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2056 on: May 01, 2017, 09:50:50 AM »
When Bruce took over, we were in the bottom three. We will finish comfortably mid table. Whilst I appreciate that we are now in a different league, at least we didn't have to go through another relegation battle.

The disappointing thing for me is that he bought the kind of players most of us thought would sort out our underperforming midfield. Unfortunately they turned out be as shite as the players they replaced. Lansbury, Hourihane have been poor, and coupled with Grealish's form we are not creating anything up top, consequently we are relying on Kodija for any spark. I'm not convinced this is entirely Buce's fault.

I would like to believe that Bruce recognises this and will address this in the summer by buying someone with a bit of pace and the ability to pick a pass. I don't think sacking him is the answer.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 09:53:09 AM by Taylor »

Offline andyh

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2057 on: May 01, 2017, 09:55:15 AM »
The only yardstick of performance that truly matters in football is points. Bruce averages 1.5 per game currently. That's not playoff form but isn't a million miles off. Therefore, even though I'm sceptical about how well we'll do next season I think he'll be given a go. Which I think is fair enough.

You have serious doubts about a manager who is the most qualified manager in the league to get us promoted. Pretty sure there are facts to back that up, or at least he's near the top for managers getting teams promoted.

And yet you'd get rid of him and bring in another manager. Who do you think could do better and would want to manage Villa? It's not easy to pick a manager and have them do well in case you haven't noticed.

Just keeping on changing managers and hoping for the best isn't going to work.

I have serious doubts about a manager who has been saying the same things post match for 5 months then does exactly the same thing the next game, has no in game management, plays players out of position, buys players without having thought where they fit.

Take kodija out of the team and we would have really been in the shit - as we were in jan and feb. For me bruce has made zero impact
I don't think we can say he has had zero impact.
I think we should recognise that he has helped to steady the ship and we should thank him for this before shaking his hand and saying goodbye.

Offline Chris Smith

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2058 on: May 01, 2017, 09:59:09 AM »
The only yardstick of performance that truly matters in football is points. Bruce averages 1.5 per game currently. That's not playoff form but isn't a million miles off. Therefore, even though I'm sceptical about how well we'll do next season I think he'll be given a go. Which I think is fair enough.

You have serious doubts about a manager who is the most qualified manager in the league to get us promoted. Pretty sure there are facts to back that up, or at least he's near the top for managers getting teams promoted.

And yet you'd get rid of him and bring in another manager. Who do you think could do better and would want to manage Villa? It's not easy to pick a manager and have them do well in case you haven't noticed.

Just keeping on changing managers and hoping for the best isn't going to work.

I have serious doubts about a manager who has been saying the same things post match for 5 months then does exactly the same thing the next game, has no in game management, plays players out of position, buys players without having thought where they fit.

Take kodija out of the team and we would have really been in the shit - as we were in jan and feb. For me bruce has made zero impact
I don't think we can say he has had zero impact.
I think we should recognise that he has helped to steady the ship and we should thank him for this before shaking his hand and saying goodbye.

Doesn't this argument also mean that if we are still mid table at Christmas we sack the bloke who has replaced the man who was sacked for finishing mid table this season? How many times do we need to keep rolling the dice?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 10:00:45 AM by Chris Smith »

Offline The Edge

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2059 on: May 01, 2017, 10:00:54 AM »
When Bruce took over, we were in the bottom three. We will finish comfortably mid table. Whilst I appreciate that we are now in a different league, at least we didn't have to go through another relegation battle.

The disappointing thing for me is that he bought the kind of players most of us thought would sort out our underperforming midfield. Unfortunately they turned out be as shite as the players they replaced. Lansbury, Hoolihan have been poor, and coupled with Grealish's form we are not creating anything up top, consequently we are relying on Kodija for any spark. I'm not convinced this is entirely Buce's fault.

I would like to believe that Bruce recognises this and will address this in the summer by buying someone with a bit of pace and the ability to pick a pass. I don't think sacking him is the answer.
We need probably half a dozen players with "a bit of pace" They have assembled a midfield with zero pace including no one with any pace out wide. This has to be the slowest midfield for us in living memory. For me pace is the one thing that we need to address in the summer. Coupled with skill obviously. I feel that everything else will start to click once this major problem is sorted out. Even Jack will get his chance to use his undoubted talent once we can stretch teams and create space. If we stick with the current lumbering midfield we will finish mid table again with a repeat of the low scoring season we've just witnessed.

Offline The Edge

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2060 on: May 01, 2017, 10:02:17 AM »
The only yardstick of performance that truly matters in football is points. Bruce averages 1.5 per game currently. That's not playoff form but isn't a million miles off. Therefore, even though I'm sceptical about how well we'll do next season I think he'll be given a go. Which I think is fair enough.

You have serious doubts about a manager who is the most qualified manager in the league to get us promoted. Pretty sure there are facts to back that up, or at least he's near the top for managers getting teams promoted.

And yet you'd get rid of him and bring in another manager. Who do you think could do better and would want to manage Villa? It's not easy to pick a manager and have them do well in case you haven't noticed.

Just keeping on changing managers and hoping for the best isn't going to work.

I have serious doubts about a manager who has been saying the same things post match for 5 months then does exactly the same thing the next game, has no in game management, plays players out of position, buys players without having thought where they fit.

Take kodija out of the team and we would have really been in the shit - as we were in jan and feb. For me bruce has made zero impact
I don't think we can say he has had zero impact.
I think we should recognise that he has helped to steady the ship and we should thank him for this before shaking his hand and saying goodbye.
Spot on.

Offline stuart445

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2061 on: May 01, 2017, 10:30:59 AM »
If we sack Bruce we will turn into Leeds, who change manager every season they don't get promoted, the fact they haven't been promoted is proof that model doesn't work.

Look at the top 2 Newcastle very little change from last season have a manager that had he been appointed earlier would have kept them up. Brighton who have been settled for a long time their promotion has been years in the making.

Online Clampy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2062 on: May 01, 2017, 10:31:08 AM »
The only yardstick of performance that truly matters in football is points. Bruce averages 1.5 per game currently. That's not playoff form but isn't a million miles off. Therefore, even though I'm sceptical about how well we'll do next season I think he'll be given a go. Which I think is fair enough.

You have serious doubts about a manager who is the most qualified manager in the league to get us promoted. Pretty sure there are facts to back that up, or at least he's near the top for managers getting teams promoted.

And yet you'd get rid of him and bring in another manager. Who do you think could do better and would want to manage Villa? It's not easy to pick a manager and have them do well in case you haven't noticed.

Just keeping on changing managers and hoping for the best isn't going to work.

I have serious doubts about a manager who has been saying the same things post match for 5 months then does exactly the same thing the next game, has no in game management, plays players out of position, buys players without having thought where they fit.

Take kodija out of the team and we would have really been in the shit - as we were in jan and feb. For me bruce has made zero impact
I don't think we can say he has had zero impact.
I think we should recognise that he has helped to steady the ship and we should thank him for this before shaking his hand and saying goodbye.

Doesn't this argument also mean that if we are still mid table at Christmas we sack the bloke who has replaced the man who was sacked for finishing mid table this season? How many times do we need to keep rolling the dice?

This is it for me. There's hardly any patience nowadays so if we're well off the play off's with yet another new manager next season, we'll all be having this debate again.

Offline Lastfootstamper

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2063 on: May 01, 2017, 10:49:02 AM »
If we sack Bruce we will turn into Leeds, who change manager every season they don't get promoted, the fact they haven't been promoted is proof that model doesn't work.

You mean not like Watford, then? All that's "proof" of is that it's important to get the decision right. Once will do.

Quote
Look at the top 2 Newcastle very little change from last season have a manager that had he been appointed earlier would have kept them up. Brighton who have been settled for a long time their promotion has been years in the making.

.....who before settling on Hughton, had four managers over 2013 and 2014.

Offline peter w

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2064 on: May 01, 2017, 10:51:58 AM »
I keep flipping on the question so really am in two minds. No, we don't look like a team that can survive against even Sunderland never mind make a serious push towards promotion next season. The team is disjointed and one-paced. Our only goal threat is Adomah passing to kodjia. Jack needs to be playing off the front twoand a pacy outlet down the flanks is required. But we also need a goalscoring threat from central midield and we don't have it. I'd shift Jedinak on as we need better than just a defensive midfielder. We need those that can play on the front foot, two.

2 in the middle behind Grealish - Hourihane + 1 other. Two full backs that can bomb on. And another centre half.

Online LukeJames

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2065 on: May 01, 2017, 10:53:34 AM »
If we sack Bruce we will turn into Leeds, who change manager every season they don't get promoted, the fact they haven't been promoted is proof that model doesn't work.
its proof that the wrong managers don't work, Watford have made that model work to their advantage.

Offline stuart445

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2066 on: May 01, 2017, 10:56:37 AM »
If we sack Bruce we will turn into Leeds, who change manager every season they don't get promoted, the fact they haven't been promoted is proof that model doesn't work.

You mean not like Watford, then? All that's "proof" of is that it's important to get the decision right. Once will do.[\b]

Quote
Look at the top 2 Newcastle very little change from last season have a manager that had he been appointed earlier would have kept them up. Brighton who have been settled for a long time their promotion has been years in the making.

..... who before settling on Hughton, had four managers over 2013 and 2014.[\b]

Oh yes the law of averages appoint 10 managers and hope that 1 works. I'm glad you aren't running the club. So it's worked for 1 club so let's ignore the multiple clubs it hasn't worked for then. That is the best logic I have ever seen.

I forgot about their promotions in 2013 and 2014.

Online paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2067 on: May 01, 2017, 11:08:11 AM »
The only yardstick of performance that truly matters in football is points. Bruce averages 1.5 per game currently. That's not playoff form but isn't a million miles off. Therefore, even though I'm sceptical about how well we'll do next season I think he'll be given a go. Which I think is fair enough.

You have serious doubts about a manager who is the most qualified manager in the league to get us promoted. Pretty sure there are facts to back that up, or at least he's near the top for managers getting teams promoted.

And yet you'd get rid of him and bring in another manager. Who do you think could do better and would want to manage Villa? It's not easy to pick a manager and have them do well in case you haven't noticed.

Just keeping on changing managers and hoping for the best isn't going to work.

As we have seen first hand with every appointment since MON. All of them preceded by calls for change on here, all of them ending in failure.

I am not 100% convinced with Bruce but his record of getting teams out of this division is amongst the best and he has the personality not to be phased by the size of the club and the task facing us. At the moment going for a third manager in less than 12 months smacks of panic and short term thinking. My own feeling is that the owner will also be reluctant to go down that route.

These 2 posts sum up the screwy logic that is being applied by a lot of fans.

"Just keeping on changing managers and hoping for the best isn't going to work." - easily countered with "just keeping a manager who has underachieved won't make him suddenly improve".

"All of them preceded by calls for change on here, all of them ending in failure." - This is true of 99% of all managerial changes, be it after 3 months or 3 years.  All it means is that the vast majority of managers don't bow out on top.

"At the moment going for a third manager in less than 12 months smacks of panic and short term thinking." - As I've often pointed out picking a manager for his promotion record when virtually everyone knows his pragmatic hoofball approach has no place in the premier league is the very definition of short term thinking.  I want him replaced with someone who can start building the style and squad that will keep us safely in midtable in the premier league.  Wyness talks of needing 3 squads, I think he's wrong.  I think there's 3 phases but we should be trying to get as many players as possible who can take that journey with us.  If that means we're signing 20-21 year olds who start now but are only squad players in 3-4 years then so be it, having that sort of plan means the churn as we progress is less every summer.

Online cdbullyweefan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2068 on: May 01, 2017, 11:12:03 AM »
The last two times we have been promoted we have gone for visionary managers who have changed the entire ethos of the club and transformed us from second tier also-rans to contenders for major honours. Sadly, Bruce doesn't seem that type.

Eddie Howe seems the best candidate. Go get him before a bigger-than-Bournemouth club in the Premier League decides to make an approach.

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2069 on: May 01, 2017, 11:32:57 AM »
Problem is MV what if Bruce continues to flounder in August and September?  One and a half points a game will have us mid table again. The last thing we can afford to have is more of the same.  We have to break out of the cycle of mediocrity.  Is Bruce the man to do it?  I have serious doubts.

I refuse to believe he'll start as poorly as RDM did. We can keep clean sheets which we couldn't really do under Di Matteo which costs us points at home to Forest, Huddersfield, Barnsley and Brentford.

If we'd ground out 1-0 wins from those sort of games we'd have been top 6 and I still back SB to do that start of next season as it's not as if we'll just be playing promotion candidates in our first 10 games, we'll also be playing relegation candidates in that run of games aswell.

Even Di Matteo could beat Rotherham.