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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 319974 times)

Online tomd2103

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2025 on: April 30, 2017, 05:38:37 PM »
Too many of our players are either just not good enough, or are never going to do it for us.

We've got a squad of players who will never be better than Championship promotion players, but pretty much every player in our squad is good enough to do that with the right guidance and motivation.

We're in a league where 34 year old Steve Sidwell will probably be a title winner and Jonathan Hogg is a starting midfielder for a top six side.

Without spending another penny this squad should be at least 20 points better off than it currently is.

As for those who are "never going to do it for us", with the right person in charge there isn't anybody we've broken so badly that they can't be part of a team that gets us out of this terrible league.

Agree Dave, though I do feel there are a couple of gaping holes in the squad.   We desperately need a physical centre forward who can hold the ball up and bring others into play.  Along with a new keeper, centre half and maybe a winger, that really should be it.   

Offline nick harper

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2026 on: April 30, 2017, 05:39:05 PM »
Too many of our players are either just not good enough, or are never going to do it for us.

I dunno. Looked at individually they're probably better than nearly all the teams either promoted or in the playoffs. Having been a Bruce keeper, I'm starting to wilt in the face of most of the evidence that he hasn't managed to form a team.

Not Premier League quality, but easily enough to get us there.

This is where I am as well. I would accept being mid-table if I could see signs of a progressive, creative shape. A team with goals in them but maybe inconsistent while they bed in, but it feels along way from that.

I really struggle to see what he has done to possibly the two most creative midfielders in the league in the first half of the season. Hourihane and Lansbury had about a dozen goals and 18 eighteen assists between them before they arrived here. Bruce seems to have restricted their freedom to play to such an extent that they are completely lost in a side that can't put two or three passes together.  It's depressing stuff.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2027 on: April 30, 2017, 05:41:39 PM »
Disagree Paul because there was a clear formation used and it looked like:

                          Johnstone

Hutton         Chester        Baker     Taylor

                            Jedinak

Adomah      Lansbury            Hourihane       Green / Amavi

                             Kodjia

It was a solid foundation, but it needed him to allow the four in front of Jedinak to attack more.   I still think, used properly, the above is a good side at this level and only real needs a big of fine tuning in the summer.  Whether Bruce can get the best out of them is another question though. 

You actually don't disagree with me, you're making the same point but you just don't realise.  He didn't find a system that worked because as you say he needed to find a way to let the other players attack more.  All the fucking about has, in my opinion, been about him trying to achieve that but is missing the point that the real reason that we're struggling is that, in the formation you've given, the back 6 and Lansbury all hold their positions, Hourihane is allowed a little drifitng but being in position if we lose it is priority and the wingers have to support their full back.  that's 9-10 players who are being made to prioritise defensive shape.  That's never going to be a system that lets you dominate teams because you become frighteningly predictable.  Having an ace up our sleeve in Kodjia has masked just how poor we've been as an attacking force since Bruce arrived.  He has scored exactly half of our league goals since Bruce arrived and in that particular spell he was absolutely on fire.

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2028 on: April 30, 2017, 06:32:07 PM »
Too many of our players are either just not good enough, or are never going to do it for us.

We've got a squad of players who will never be better than Championship promotion players, but pretty much every player in our squad is good enough to do that with the right guidance and motivation.

We're in a league where 34 year old Steve Sidwell will probably be a title winner and Jonathan Hogg is a starting midfielder for a top six side.

Without spending another penny this squad should be at least 20 points better off than it currently is.

As for those who are "never going to do it for us", with the right person in charge there isn't anybody we've broken so badly that they can't be part of a team that gets us out of this terrible league.

Agree Dave, though I do feel there are a couple of gaping holes in the squad.   We desperately need a physical centre forward who can hold the ball up and bring others into play.  Along with a new keeper, centre half and maybe a winger, that really should be it.   

As much as I defend Bruce he doesn't really help himself playing the likes of Hourihane and Lansbury as left midfielders.

You can argue all day how good Lansbury and Hourihane actually are but they were driving forces for their previous clubs at this level playing centrally in midfield.

I really don't understand why with Jedinak out we start messing about and put Lansbury wide left and bring in Gardner who simply isn't good enough.

I honestly don't think things are as bad as they seem. The season has been dead for months now so ultimately it was going to happen that performances tail off, it happens to all teams in all leagues with little to play for (Stoke 0-0 West Ham for example).

When new managers come in they either bemoan how bad the defence is or they can't score goals. We have a top 6 standard defence going by the stats and also a 20 goal striker at this level.

As ever our problems are a disjointed midfield and defeatist mentality.

How many managers and millions of pounds will it take until we get a proper central midfield that can actually control games? And yesterday was yet another game we lost after losing the first goal. The stats for that this season are ridiculous.

Bruce better sort that out otherwise he won't last much longer next season than RDM did this.

Offline brontebilly

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2029 on: April 30, 2017, 07:05:19 PM »
Too many of our players are either just not good enough, or are never going to do it for us.

We've got a squad of players who will never be better than Championship promotion players, but pretty much every player in our squad is good enough to do that with the right guidance and motivation.

We're in a league where 34 year old Steve Sidwell will probably be a title winner and Jonathan Hogg is a starting midfielder for a top six side.

Without spending another penny this squad should be at least 20 points better off than it currently is.

As for those who are "never going to do it for us", with the right person in charge there isn't anybody we've broken so badly that they can't be part of a team that gets us out of this terrible league.

Spot on Dave. Bruce playing the poor mouth looking for more money to spend is laughable. We have spent crazy money at buying proven performers but out last two managers have been clueless in making a team out of them.

Offline Clampy

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2030 on: April 30, 2017, 07:40:55 PM »
A woeful perfomance by the look of it yesterday and it's been a few too many but i'd still like to see him get a crack at next season.

Offline West Derby Villan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2031 on: April 30, 2017, 07:53:02 PM »
A woeful perfomance by the look of it yesterday and it's been a few too many but i'd still like to see him get a crack at next season.

Agree we need some stability to build on, two or three new players required and injured players returning will ensure we make an impact next season
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 08:19:16 PM by Wes Derby Villan »

Offline ktvillan

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2032 on: April 30, 2017, 08:04:52 PM »
I've changed my vote from see how it goes first few games to get shot.  Awful football was masked by the results for a while, but now the mask has slipped again.  I look for the basics - things like passing and movement, players played to their strengths and appearing to know what is expected of them, sensible tactics and formation, looking for ways to win games rather than the McLeish-like damage limitation approach, and weeding out of obvious weak links.  Apart from shifting Driftwood out, I'm afraid I've not seen much of any of that from Bruce.   Without those basics I don't see the point in letting him do damage to next season.  Talks a good game but can't seem to walk the walk.  If he is given a go next season I would hope Wyness and co. are already drafting and sounding out a shortlist of potential replacements so we aren't caught with our pants down when the almost inevitable happens around October.   


Offline Newby

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2033 on: April 30, 2017, 08:29:09 PM »
God, it's been terrible. Give Bruce more money and it may well be it will only lead to more to be undone by another Manager. He has choked the creativity out of the players. No more than to October at the most. He seems lost, so desperate to do well at this club that he arses about with the formation seeking a win with panache formula. I wouldn't be surprised if he was sacked, although I understand the need for stability, but hey, how about we screw stability and get the selection right for once? Any bloke who keeps picking Agbonlahor and Bacuna is risking the bullet as far as I am concerned.

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2034 on: April 30, 2017, 08:57:58 PM »
No more than to October at the most.

It really does surprise me how 28% have voted for 'Let's see what happens at the start of 2017-18' when history screams at us the options are extremely limited and we'll end up with another dud. All the quality managers will have been snapped up by clubs looking to give their new manager a full pre-season, a chance to access the squad and bring in - move out whoever he wants.

A vote for 'Let's see what happens at the start of 2017-18' to me seems like people are prepared for a third season in the Championship. So does voting to keep Bruce but you get the point.

Offline Legion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2035 on: April 30, 2017, 10:33:31 PM »
Young and hungry has become old-hat and starving.

Offline KevinGage

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2036 on: April 30, 2017, 10:36:40 PM »
We wait until October and it will be Pardew, or some such.

I'm torn on Bruce.

On the one hand: You could argue that he has stopped the rot, made us harder to beat and has done away with poxy little shithouse clubs coming to Villa Park and taking the piss.

On the other: Couldn't get the best out of the likes of Ayew and Amavi, who should have been better than most in this division by far. Now part of that is on them. But he's struggled to get a tune out of creative/ forward players he has signed too.

I'm leaning towards the tin tac. Because when I look at that side, I don't think with a few minor adjustments here and there, we'll start bombing up the league. Not with the way he has set us up to date.

Do we credit Bruce for Kodjia's form this season? It might be churlish not to, but JK was scoring under Di Matteo too, and scored shitloads for a pretty mediocre Bristol City last year.

He seems the sort of free spirit that doesn't worry about the team ethic all that much. Which can be exasperating at times, but it seems he doesn't let the Bruce straightjacket bring him down that much.

The concern for me is that unlike Graham Taylor's side in 87/88, or even BFR's 1992 lot - who were blessed with some of the best players in the division at the time, but who were misfiring- I don't think another player or two is necessarily going to make the difference.

Indeed, take Kodjia out of the equation (it is by no means unthinkable he might get prem offers this summer) and a continuation of our level of performance this season will have us nervously looking at the other end of the table.

Offline steamer

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2037 on: April 30, 2017, 10:51:19 PM »
I did not want him, but went with the popular view that he was a promotion specialist.
We have a plan, promotion team, stabalise team, look for Honours team.
I accepted him for the promotion team, and possibly the stabalise team, then move on.

I go with the logic of , we can not keep changing. But after one transfer window, dire, dire performances, no style or vision, lauded players bought and turned into shit.Knowing all the problems after a game but doing fuck all to change it before the next one.
Time for the Taxi.

Offline Lastfootstamper

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2038 on: April 30, 2017, 11:14:12 PM »
As andyh has sort of observed in Other Games, compared to the top division now, we're barely even playing the same sport. I don't think Bruce is the man to change that.

Offline andyh

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #2039 on: April 30, 2017, 11:21:28 PM »
As andyh has sort of observed in Other Games, compared to the top division now, we're barely even playing the same sport. I don't think Bruce is the man to change that.
Thanks for noticing LFS.
To me, if feels like we are a million light years from even the poorest teams in the prem.