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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 318658 times)

Offline LeeB

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Re: Bruce is out of this world
« Reply #1605 on: April 13, 2017, 12:50:51 PM »
There's money involved?

Oh, Brian
Oh, Brian
You're the greatest
Holte End say

Online Clampy

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Re: Bruce is out of this world
« Reply #1606 on: April 14, 2017, 10:32:05 AM »
Going back to my original post, I honestly thought Paul had been a regular down there this season seeing as he's gone to great length's at times to knock Bruce's football under us and took poster's like me and many others to task when we've said Bruce is the right man at the moment. That's not me knocking how many times he's been by the way, it's not my place to do that.

Oh and Darren Woolley is the best fan.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce is out of this world
« Reply #1607 on: April 14, 2017, 11:28:48 AM »
Going back to my original post, I honestly thought Paul had been a regular down there this season seeing as he's gone to great length's at times to knock Bruce's football under us and took poster's like me and many others to task when we've said Bruce is the right man at the moment. That's not me knocking how many times he's been by the way, it's not my place to do that.

Oh and Darren Woolley is the best fan.

I honestly don't think I've done that at all.  What I've said, fairly consistently, is that the sort of team's that Bruce puts together are teams that struggle to stay in the premier league and I personally think going for a pragmatic option to get us up and then start again once we're promoted is the wrong approach, I'd rather we'd taken a longer term view and got in younger players with the right technique and skillset who could've developed together (with players like Jedi there to mentor them through for a season or 2).  I didn't take anyone to task, I just argued against the idea that playing the way we are is the only way out of this league, the evidence of teams that have been promoted over the last 10 years backs me up and even this year the 2 teams that are going to get the automatic spots have mixed the battling results with games where they've dominated and been comfortable.

My opinion of Bruce isn't based on 30 odd games at Villa (regardless of how many of them I've seen live), it's based on his entire career as a manager.  I've seen his teams play enough times to know that how we're playing now is what he does, he creates a solid back 4, an industrious midfield in front of them and plays for the clean sheet.  He then hopes for a goal or 2 from a set piece or a bit of magic from the 1-2 players that he lets really express themselves.

Online Clampy

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Re: Bruce is out of this world
« Reply #1608 on: April 14, 2017, 12:07:30 PM »
I think first and foremost he wants us to be hard  to beat which is fine. Whatever system and philosophy he's chosen over the years, it's got him four promotions which is why he's here. For where we are now at this moment in time, I think he's ideal.

Online SoccerHQ

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Re: Bruce is out of this world
« Reply #1609 on: April 14, 2017, 12:57:44 PM »
Going back to my original post, I honestly thought Paul had been a regular down there this season seeing as he's gone to great length's at times to knock Bruce's football under us and took poster's like me and many others to task when we've said Bruce is the right man at the moment. That's not me knocking how many times he's been by the way, it's not my place to do that.

Oh and Darren Woolley is the best fan.

I honestly don't think I've done that at all.  What I've said, fairly consistently, is that the sort of team's that Bruce puts together are teams that struggle to stay in the premier league and I personally think going for a pragmatic option to get us up and then start again once we're promoted is the wrong approach, I'd rather we'd taken a longer term view and got in younger players with the right technique and skillset who could've developed together (with players like Jedi there to mentor them through for a season or 2).  I didn't take anyone to task, I just argued against the idea that playing the way we are is the only way out of this league, the evidence of teams that have been promoted over the last 10 years backs me up and even this year the 2 teams that are going to get the automatic spots have mixed the battling results with games where they've dominated and been comfortable.

My opinion of Bruce isn't based on 30 odd games at Villa (regardless of how many of them I've seen live), it's based on his entire career as a manager.  I've seen his teams play enough times to know that how we're playing now is what he does, he creates a solid back 4, an industrious midfield in front of them and plays for the clean sheet.  He then hopes for a goal or 2 from a set piece or a bit of magic from the 1-2 players that he lets really express themselves.

Is there a football rule somewhere saying we can't let go of Steve Bruce once we get promoted. Watford did it with Jokanovic two seasons back.

It would be harsh and no doubt SB's mates in the press and BBC would have a massive go at the club but it works both ways given SB himself walked out on a promoted club just weeks before the season started last summer.

Xia gives me the impression he isn't going to hang around and let things drift finishing 16th every year like Lerner did.

Online ktvillan

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Re: Bruce is out of this world
« Reply #1610 on: April 14, 2017, 01:37:03 PM »
Bruce may well do the job and get us up but Paul has a point.  There's this myth that any manager needs to know the league and have a pedigree.  The success this season of Benitez, Wagner, and Stam shows what limited thinking that is and that it's far from the only way.  I'd also prefer a coach like those three, but the problem is it's not easy to predict which ones are going to work out and which ones could be another Zola.  At least with Bruce you know more or less what you are getting but I'd agree that in a way it's very short term thinking. 

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce is out of this world
« Reply #1611 on: April 14, 2017, 02:48:35 PM »
I think first and foremost he wants us to be hard  to beat which is fine. Whatever system and philosophy he's chosen over the years, it's got him four promotions which is why he's here. For where we are now at this moment in time, I think he's ideal.

How many of those promotions are followed by a relegation though, that's why I don't agree.  Most good managers get 1 or 2 promotions from a league like this and then never get another chance because they only manage at a higher level, for that reason praising him for having more promotions than anyone else is just an acceptance that he's found his level and it's somewhere between the championship and the premier league.

SoccerHQ, of course there isn't.  However the reason I have concerns about this is that squads built by Bruce don't have the talent for someone else to come in and fix them.  Look at the mess Hull are in, look at the state he left Sunderland in.  None of the clubs he's been at give him the sack and then see an immediate upturn in performances because he just doesn't leave them with the attacking players you need for that.  I've said all along that if he got us up this season it was a gamble worth taking but another season of him managing us at this level could be damaging to us in the mid-term.

Offline Sexual Ealing

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Re: Bruce is out of this world
« Reply #1612 on: April 14, 2017, 02:53:16 PM »
If we were going to go with one of the suet pudding pragmatists (and I'd rather we didn't) it would have been so much better if the timing of our indignities could have aligned and given us Allardyce instead.

Online eamonn

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Re: Bruce is out of this world
« Reply #1613 on: April 14, 2017, 02:57:02 PM »
I dunno, does Sam play sexier football than Steve?

Offline Sexual Ealing

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Re: Bruce is out of this world
« Reply #1614 on: April 14, 2017, 02:58:51 PM »
No, but he wins a bit more.

Online Clampy

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Re: Bruce is out of this world
« Reply #1615 on: April 14, 2017, 03:02:13 PM »
Well i'm reasonably happy with Bruce at the moment. The blip in January aside and some dodgy performances, he's done ok.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce is out of this world
« Reply #1616 on: April 14, 2017, 03:24:13 PM »
Well i'm reasonably happy with Bruce at the moment. The blip in January aside and some dodgy performances, he's done ok.

He has, and if you look back at my posts I've never suggested otherwise (although I think blip is letting him off very lightly for a shocking run of results that he needs to take most of the blame for).  As I've also said, those sort of blips exist all through his career so i think taking it as an anomaly that won't be repeated is risky.  My concerns aren't about him getting us promoted, it's about how much work will be needed to keep us there.  I get the whole Wyness 3 teams thing, I just don't agree with it, I think developing a club culture is far more important and for me all we're doing by taking Bruce is saying that we're willing to delay that until we've been back in the premier league for a season or 2.

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Bruce is out of this world
« Reply #1617 on: April 14, 2017, 04:00:33 PM »
My concern is that his style of football may be good enough for the Division but not top 2 as I think the game has moved on even at this level.
We have got to be better than a combination of Leeds Fulham Derby Hull Borough Wednesday Sunderland Swansea ?
Most of these teams will not be trying to bludgeon thier way out of this division.
I do accept that this division is more physical and you have to be able to deal with that and that is one area Bruce has improved, we look less likely to get bullied now, is that enough?.

Online mr underhill

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Re: Bruce is out of this world
« Reply #1618 on: April 15, 2017, 06:50:00 AM »
We'll know around this time next year.

Offline Ads

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Re: Bruce is out of this world
« Reply #1619 on: April 15, 2017, 09:00:47 AM »
Why would it be a criticism to be relegated with Hull orb the Noses? Two tin pot outfits who had no business being promoted in the first place.