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Author Topic: Bruce Sacked at last (now official)  (Read 2113965 times)

Online eamonn

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #14640 on: June 18, 2018, 09:04:58 PM »
"That's the Championship.  We have to roll wor sleeves up and get on with it."

"It's "off with his 'ead" week again, is it?"

Offline clash city rocker

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #14641 on: June 18, 2018, 09:41:21 PM »
Bruce won't get us back into the premiership.

Offline Risso

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #14642 on: June 18, 2018, 09:52:43 PM »
Bruce won't get us back into the premiership.

Mainly because it hasn't been called that since Doug was a lad!

Offline brontebilly

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #14643 on: June 19, 2018, 12:08:56 AM »
How much has Jack Grealish's value increased Bruce took over?

Not to mention that the majority of the relegated side were culled during Bruce's time (Ayew, Westwood, Bacuna, Gestede etc), funding most of his new signings and player wage bill.

He made one huge mistake on Hogan, which if we had a functioning board, should never have been allowed to happen. Lansbury too was another lazy signing, complete waste. The other permanent signings (Hourihane, Bree, Elmo, Whelan, Bjarnasson, Taylor) were a mixed bag but in the main made positive contributions last season for what they cost us.

When Bruce is forced to manage a limited budget, he does his best work. The loans were in the main excellent additions and it's the only market we are likely to be working in this summer.

Any young and progressive manager would be well advised to stay well aware from VP this summer.

I've never had a problem with his signings, no manager ever gets it 100% but his problem is not with his signings, it's what he does with them.

On a one by one basis every signing seems ok but when you put them together it looks less impressive. When he arrived we had Amavi as the only left back and Hutton and RDL as right backs. He replaced Amavi with Taylor (just as bad a signing as Hogan in my opinion) and then added 2 more right backs. In midfield we needed signings to replace Gardner, Westwood and Tish but we had Jedinak and Grealish ready to start regularly and a few kids who were looking for gametime. That didn't mean we needed to sign, over 6 months; Hourihane, Bjarnason, Lansbury, Whelan and Onomah.  You could take 2-3 of those away and we wouldn't be significantly weaker.


The lack of planning around his signings and how they're going to form a team mirrors his lack of planning about how the squad will look next season and his lack of planning over what type of midfield is best suited for the opposition. Everything is always reactive, he lands on a team that works and sticks to it until it doesn't, then he repeats it, that's why he gets runs of wins followed y runs of defeats.


As for the line about Grealish, I think it's a massive stretch to put his development down to Bruce, he's been regarded as a fantastic prospect for years and was on the verge of fulfilling it for a couple of years.  Bruce has played a part in his development but as one of 7-8 people over a number of years.

Jack Grealish's career was going absolutely nowhere until midway through last season. He was on the verge of being another Luke Moore. A ghost in our relegation season and first season in championship. Not too long ago, the international tug of war over him seemed a distant almost laughable memory.

Don't get me wrong, the kid deserves serious credit for turning it around, and may save us from administration in doing so, but Bruce was the manager when that transformation happened.

Agreed on your general point on his signings. They can lack balance, we were overloaded with right sided players but to be fair Hutton and Adamoah did remarkably well on the left. Of course there was a lack of long term planning, his brief from the board was to get us asap! The disastrous consequences of that board policy are now upon us. 

Offline TonyD

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #14644 on: June 19, 2018, 08:00:57 AM »
Jack played well when came back from injury because he is a good player.  Bruce had fuck all to do with it.   He will play even better in a team with a manager that does tactics.       

Offline cheltenhamlion

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #14645 on: June 19, 2018, 08:52:00 AM »


You surely aren't blaming Bruce for the finances of the football club? especially seeing as he's in the black during his reign. It's hardly on his head.

I also don't blame him for there being three better teams than us last season. That's football. We don't have a divine right to finish above anyone.

There may be 20 above us next season or there may be none. Time will tell.



Weak arguments.   He signed expensive flops and signed ageing expensive loan players and it was this approach that entailed losing a lot of money each month.  Admittedly he should not have been allowed to do it by Xia and Wyness but it was his strategy.

the fact that there were three teams better than the most expensive squad in the league tells you all you need to know about Bruce's failure. 

Yep. I don't understand the defence of Bruce on transfers. "When it comes to net spend he is in the black". Maybe (And I think that is probably wrong as well) but on his watch our wage bill was 50% at least bigger than anyone else in the division. We chucked £70k a week at Terry. £50k a week at Snodgrass. Should the board have authorised it? Of course not but Bruce was their promotion expert so they danced to the tune of what he "needs".

Bruce himself thought Whelan's legs had gone when we signed him but "we need the bodies". Neatly forgetting he had signed Lansbury six months earlier, stuck him on £40k a week and now didn't fancy using him if it could be avoided.

He lied through his teeth about tracking Hogan for years. Either that, or he is far more formless than I have him credit for. Hogan's game hasn't changed. He runs hard and is a poacher. So let's biff it at his head whilst the entire midfield are still in our half. He signed Bjarnason and tried to employ him as a left winger. He rehabilitated Gabby so much he contributed a whole 2 goals in nearly 2 years.

Yet still there are those who excuse him. It is always all someone else's fault.

If we have any desire to sort this club out then we need a progressive modern manager. We need a proper coaching set up that is all about developing young players. And we need to be run as a business not a rich man's play thing.

And I am afraid, lovely bloke that I am sure he is, this dinosaur won't deliver it. I can't be doing with safety first football any more. Or hearing excuses why it isn't his fault we are in the bottom half/haven't won in 6/it is all the fans fault for being hysterical. He needs to be fucked off rapidly and you get someone like Flores in his place (because doubtless someone will next ask "but who could do better?"). Done it before, no compensation to offer, wants to come back to England.

Offline mr underhill

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #14646 on: June 19, 2018, 08:54:54 AM »
the problem with all this as I see it, is that there might not be a club for anyone to manage or play for. I got pilloried a couple of weeks ago for saying we were skint. Well we are, and the only thing that's going to save us is new ownership. Tone no longer has a pot to piss in.

Offline cannock villa

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #14647 on: June 19, 2018, 12:18:37 PM »
Jack played well when came back from injury because he is a good player.  Bruce had fuck all to do with it.   He will play even better in a team with a manager that does tactics.       
So when players play poorly its Bruce's fault but when they play well it's nothing to do with him

Offline robleflaneur

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #14648 on: June 19, 2018, 12:26:33 PM »


You surely aren't blaming Bruce for the finances of the football club? especially seeing as he's in the black during his reign. It's hardly on his head.

I also don't blame him for there being three better teams than us last season. That's football. We don't have a divine right to finish above anyone.

There may be 20 above us next season or there may be none. Time will tell.



Weak arguments.   He signed expensive flops and signed ageing expensive loan players and it was this approach that entailed losing a lot of money each month.  Admittedly he should not have been allowed to do it by Xia and Wyness but it was his strategy.

the fact that there were three teams better than the most expensive squad in the league tells you all you need to know about Bruce's failure. 

Yep. I don't understand the defence of Bruce on transfers. "When it comes to net spend he is in the black". Maybe (And I think that is probably wrong as well) but on his watch our wage bill was 50% at least bigger than anyone else in the division. We chucked £70k a week at Terry. £50k a week at Snodgrass. Should the board have authorised it? Of course not but Bruce was their promotion expert so they danced to the tune of what he "needs".

Bruce himself thought Whelan's legs had gone when we signed him but "we need the bodies". Neatly forgetting he had signed Lansbury six months earlier, stuck him on £40k a week and now didn't fancy using him if it could be avoided.

He lied through his teeth about tracking Hogan for years. Either that, or he is far more formless than I have him credit for. Hogan's game hasn't changed. He runs hard and is a poacher. So let's biff it at his head whilst the entire midfield are still in our half. He signed Bjarnason and tried to employ him as a left winger. He rehabilitated Gabby so much he contributed a whole 2 goals in nearly 2 years.

Yet still there are those who excuse him. It is always all someone else's fault.

If we have any desire to sort this club out then we need a progressive modern manager. We need a proper coaching set up that is all about developing young players. And we need to be run as a business not a rich man's play thing.

And I am afraid, lovely bloke that I am sure he is, this dinosaur won't deliver it. I can't be doing with safety first football any more. Or hearing excuses why it isn't his fault we are in the bottom half/haven't won in 6/it is all the fans fault for being hysterical. He needs to be fucked off rapidly and you get someone like Flores in his place (because doubtless someone will next ask "but who could do better?"). Done it before, no compensation to offer, wants to come back to England.
Brilliant.Great suggestion for replacement.
And also had Barney and Lyden as extra midfield cover.Whelan was not needed.

Online paul_e

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #14649 on: June 19, 2018, 12:32:39 PM »
Jack played well when came back from injury because he is a good player.  Bruce had fuck all to do with it.   He will play even better in a team with a manager that does tactics.       
So when players play poorly its Bruce's fault but when they play well it's nothing to do with him

Said no one on this thread.

People argued that giving Bruce a massive amount of credit for Grealish being the player everyone thought he'd become 5-6 years ago is a massive stretch. Bruce gets some credit because Grealish found a degree of consistency that had been missing but how much is impossible to judge because no one knows how big a part he played.

The injury and the scare it gave Jack was probably the biggest thing in truth, something Grealish himself has suggested - http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11677/11384999/jack-grealish-exclusive-ive-grown-up-after-life-threatening-injury

As for playing poorly, again no one criticises Bruce for players performing poorly, people criticise him for misusing them. Hogan has been shit but he's a midget and we kept hitting long balls at him, Bruce gets criticism for that. Bjarnason and Onomah gave us loads more energy in midfield but Bruce picked Jedinak and Hourihane in the final and we looked incredibly flat, again he deserves criticism for that.

Offline old man villa fan

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #14650 on: June 19, 2018, 12:45:30 PM »
Jack played well when came back from injury because he is a good player.  Bruce had fuck all to do with it.   He will play even better in a team with a manager that does tactics.       
So when players play poorly its Bruce's fault but when they play well it's nothing to do with him

Optimum use of resources involves having a system that fits the players or players that fit a system. Either are in the control of the manager provided he is given funding and baring injuries.

We have failed considerably last season in failing to make best use of the abilities of the players we had.  Players have bad games, it happens. Continuing to play players that are not playing to their normal standards when you have options rests with the manager. Similarly, when they are over played and need resting.

One of the reasons that Grealish was a different player when he came back is down to the senior players that came in getting hold of him. You could see how much he looked to Terry and Snodgrass. Grealish was a completely different player to the one the season before.

Offline ktvillan

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #14651 on: June 19, 2018, 01:18:56 PM »
He needs to be fucked off rapidly and you get someone like Flores in his place (because doubtless someone will next ask "but who could do better?"). Done it before, no compensation to offer, wants to come back to England.
Brilliant.Great suggestion for replacement.
And also had Barney and Lyden as extra midfield cover.Whelan was not needed.
Flores had crossed my mind too - didn't he express a keen interest when we recruited either Shergar or Garde?

Offline GarTomas

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #14652 on: June 19, 2018, 02:52:51 PM »


You surely aren't blaming Bruce for the finances of the football club? especially seeing as he's in the black during his reign. It's hardly on his head.

I also don't blame him for there being three better teams than us last season. That's football. We don't have a divine right to finish above anyone.

There may be 20 above us next season or there may be none. Time will tell.



Weak arguments.   He signed expensive flops and signed ageing expensive loan players and it was this approach that entailed losing a lot of money each month.  Admittedly he should not have been allowed to do it by Xia and Wyness but it was his strategy.

the fact that there were three teams better than the most expensive squad in the league tells you all you need to know about Bruce's failure. 

Yep. I don't understand the defence of Bruce on transfers. "When it comes to net spend he is in the black". Maybe (And I think that is probably wrong as well) but on his watch our wage bill was 50% at least bigger than anyone else in the division. We chucked £70k a week at Terry. £50k a week at Snodgrass. Should the board have authorised it? Of course not but Bruce was their promotion expert so they danced to the tune of what he "needs".

Bruce himself thought Whelan's legs had gone when we signed him but "we need the bodies". Neatly forgetting he had signed Lansbury six months earlier, stuck him on £40k a week and now didn't fancy using him if it could be avoided.

He lied through his teeth about tracking Hogan for years. Either that, or he is far more formless than I have him credit for. Hogan's game hasn't changed. He runs hard and is a poacher. So let's biff it at his head whilst the entire midfield are still in our half. He signed Bjarnason and tried to employ him as a left winger. He rehabilitated Gabby so much he contributed a whole 2 goals in nearly 2 years.

Yet still there are those who excuse him. It is always all someone else's fault.

If we have any desire to sort this club out then we need a progressive modern manager. We need a proper coaching set up that is all about developing young players. And we need to be run as a business not a rich man's play thing.

And I am afraid, lovely bloke that I am sure he is, this dinosaur won't deliver it. I can't be doing with safety first football any more. Or hearing excuses why it isn't his fault we are in the bottom half/haven't won in 6/it is all the fans fault for being hysterical. He needs to be fucked off rapidly and you get someone like Flores in his place (because doubtless someone will next ask "but who could do better?"). Done it before, no compensation to offer, wants to come back to England.

110% agree.

Offline sirlordbaltimore

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #14653 on: June 19, 2018, 03:14:48 PM »
Bruce won't get us back into the premiership.

Why not?

He only failed by one goal against the so called Fulham genius.

Offline sirlordbaltimore

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #14654 on: June 19, 2018, 03:16:38 PM »
Jack played well when came back from injury because he is a good player.  Bruce had fuck all to do with it.   He will play even better in a team with a manager that does tactics.     

and yet, if he'd come back a crap player it WOULD have been all Bruce's fault of course. Standard

'Bruce has ruined him' the blarters would've shouted from their laptops in gammon style red faced rage no doubt at all




 


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