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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 324651 times)

Offline AV82EC

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1290 on: March 10, 2017, 02:04:54 PM »


the last game we played the Huddersfield forum to a man said it was the worst game of football they have seen this season, and they won !
 yet on our post match thread we are talking positive about our performance, this is denial in a massive way,
 


Context is everything for football supporters when they describe a game.

Imagine (if you can) that we are high flying Huddersfield, & we host mid to bottom of the table Villa, who hadn't won a match all year until they started playing the shit teams.

Yet, they come here and out play us, & generally make us look a bit shit and ordinary. Somehow we mange to score the only goal of the game and scrape a lucky win, but guess what?- it probably is the worst game we've seen all year!

That's a Huddersfield fans perspective of a game they expected to win, but struggled to. It doesn't have to be ours! Villa fans who went to the game thought we played well.

Yes it isn't very pretty but this isn't a pretty division. For the last half a dozen games we have won or created enough chances to win. We are improving, slowly, but we are improving. If the direction of travel continues to be that then he should stay, if it doesn't then we have to think again - He has the basis of his team, they are starting to operate more like a team, and I am out of excuses for any further backward direction of travel, so this is it now - let's just see how it goes towards May.

Nice summary amfy.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1291 on: March 10, 2017, 02:08:52 PM »


the last game we played the Huddersfield forum to a man said it was the worst game of football they have seen this season, and they won !
 yet on our post match thread we are talking positive about our performance, this is denial in a massive way,
 


Context is everything for football supporters when they describe a game.

Imagine (if you can) that we are high flying Huddersfield, & we host mid to bottom of the table Villa, who hadn't won a match all year until they started playing the shit teams.

Yet, they come here and out play us, & generally make us look a bit shit and ordinary. Somehow we mange to score the only goal of the game and scrape a lucky win, but guess what?- it probably is the worst game we've seen all year!

That's a Huddersfield fans perspective of a game they expected to win, but struggled to. It doesn't have to be ours! Villa fans who went to the game thought we played well.

Yes it isn't very pretty but this isn't a pretty division. For the last half a dozen games we have won or created enough chances to win. We are improving, slowly, but we are improving. If the direction of travel continues to be that then he should stay, if it doesn't then we have to think again - He has the basis of his team, they are starting to operate more like a team, and I am out of excuses for any further backward direction of travel, so this is it now - let's just see how it goes towards May.

I'm not sure I agree with this, I think most teams in the league are at least trying to play and approach games trying to win them, our games have seen a genuine drop in quality because we're setup to be spoilers, that's what I've found frustrating, away from home we seem to want to make ourselves the underdog and drag games down to a scrap.

Offline amfy

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1292 on: March 10, 2017, 02:10:35 PM »
Of course! I haven't seen anyone do that to us! ;)

Offline AV82EC

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1293 on: March 10, 2017, 02:15:45 PM »


the last game we played the Huddersfield forum to a man said it was the worst game of football they have seen this season, and they won !
 yet on our post match thread we are talking positive about our performance, this is denial in a massive way,
 


Context is everything for football supporters when they describe a game.

Imagine (if you can) that we are high flying Huddersfield, & we host mid to bottom of the table Villa, who hadn't won a match all year until they started playing the shit teams.

Yet, they come here and out play us, & generally make us look a bit shit and ordinary. Somehow we mange to score the only goal of the game and scrape a lucky win, but guess what?- it probably is the worst game we've seen all year!

That's a Huddersfield fans perspective of a game they expected to win, but struggled to. It doesn't have to be ours! Villa fans who went to the game thought we played well.

Yes it isn't very pretty but this isn't a pretty division. For the last half a dozen games we have won or created enough chances to win. We are improving, slowly, but we are improving. If the direction of travel continues to be that then he should stay, if it doesn't then we have to think again - He has the basis of his team, they are starting to operate more like a team, and I am out of excuses for any further backward direction of travel, so this is it now - let's just see how it goes towards May.

I'm not sure I agree with this, I think most teams in the league are at least trying to play and approach games trying to win them, our games have seen a genuine drop in quality because we're setup to be spoilers, that's what I've found frustrating, away from home we seem to want to make ourselves the underdog and drag games down to a scrap.

Well we didn't on Tuesday even if the 2nd half became attritional.

Offline amfy

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1294 on: March 10, 2017, 02:19:53 PM »
Some teams do manage to pay entertaining football, but so do we sometimes.

How 'pretty' we are needs to be firmly in the context of how terrible we were last year. Teams manage to play better football when they've been together for a while, get a bit of intuitive understanding of each others play, or as a club have a style that the addition of the odd new player doesn't interrupt. We are some way from that. We aren't going to find that instantly by buying the best players from other clubs, but if you can get good players AND form a team from them - then it starts to happen, but it isn't going to rise magically just because we spent a lot of money and Villa shouldn't be losing to teams like Huddersfield.

Offline Chris Jameson

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1295 on: March 10, 2017, 02:35:32 PM »
The few games i've seen in this league have pretty much all been rubbish, I really thought the standard would be far better than it is.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 04:22:36 PM by Chris Jameson »

Online Clampy

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1296 on: March 10, 2017, 02:40:35 PM »
Some teams do manage to pay entertaining football, but so do we sometimes.

How 'pretty' we are needs to be firmly in the context of how terrible we were last year. Teams manage to play better football when they've been together for a while, get a bit of intuitive understanding of each others play, or as a club have a style that the addition of the odd new player doesn't interrupt. We are some way from that. We aren't going to find that instantly by buying the best players from other clubs, but if you can get good players AND form a team from them - then it starts to happen, but it isn't going to rise magically just because we spent a lot of money and Villa shouldn't be losing to teams like Huddersfield.

This is it for me. Going into next August the majority of our players will have been together for half a season which is going to be a big help. 

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1297 on: March 10, 2017, 02:46:14 PM »
Some teams do manage to pay entertaining football, but so do we sometimes.

How 'pretty' we are needs to be firmly in the context of how terrible we were last year. Teams manage to play better football when they've been together for a while, get a bit of intuitive understanding of each others play, or as a club have a style that the addition of the odd new player doesn't interrupt. We are some way from that. We aren't going to find that instantly by buying the best players from other clubs, but if you can get good players AND form a team from them - then it starts to happen, but it isn't going to rise magically just because we spent a lot of money and Villa shouldn't be losing to teams like Huddersfield.

I agree absolutely, I'm just not sure how much will change because I don't know how much Bruce wants it to.  Whenever I think back on watching a Bruce team I see them playing to stifle the game and try to score from set pieces or on the break.  Sometimes things will just click and we'll play better than that because we have good players but I don't think there will ever be a plan to encourage us to develop in that way.  I just think Bruce is a 'win ugly' manager and our best performances will be the ones where we stifle the opposition and stop them playing whilst creating the odd chance ourselves, that's what I was getting at.

Online manic-road

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1298 on: March 10, 2017, 02:48:51 PM »
Yep I think next season is our most important season in a long while and will probably shape Xia's reign.

I agree, but I hope that doesn't lead to a sense of panic.  I do think we are getting there and that just a few wise signings in key positions will make a big difference. 

I'm panicking, because I just don't think we are 'getting there'

for me we are moving further away from any cohesive plan for promotion, just buying some decent championship players and 'keeping it tight' in the hope we can nick a goal does'nt count as a proper tactical plan
it might have got Bruce some promotions in the past but its a massive risk to think this simple archaic plan will work for us next season when its producing zero positive results this season

this season has been an absolute disaster from start to finish,
 the last game we played the Huddersfield forum to a man said it was the worst game of football they have seen this season, and they won !
 yet on our post match thread we are talking positive about our performance, this is denial in a massive way,
 we are in the worst place we have been for as long as I've supported Villa and that's a long time, we are not getting anywhere in my opinion, I just don't see it, I wish I had the faith to see what some of you others do but as much as I look I cant see how there are any reasons to be cheerful

the Bruce plan is in full swing now, we have got rid or benched any creative talent we had (Ayew, Grealish) theres really no point Bruce playing them anyway as he hasn't the first clue as to what to do with them
and we have filled the midfield with warrior types to become a fully fledged Bruce outfit, we are eye bleedingly dull to watch and we still lose more than we win, with very little hope that anything will change in the near future

'don't panic'  sorry I'm in full panic mode about the Villa at the moment, I just dont get how so many are happy with what they see and think it all bodes well for next season

 the bar is the lowest its been for decades no need to keep lowering it



I don't think that so many are happy at what they see at all as you put it, far from it but the majority won't be wanting the trigger pulled on a manager so soon after appointing one yet again and giving him a transfer window and then not giving him much time to get his team to gel.

Offline amfy

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1299 on: March 10, 2017, 03:10:42 PM »
....so how does that align with us having 20 odd shots a game? Do you belive they have done that despite being told not to?

Online Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1300 on: March 10, 2017, 03:54:43 PM »


the last game we played the Huddersfield forum to a man said it was the worst game of football they have seen this season, and they won !
 yet on our post match thread we are talking positive about our performance, this is denial in a massive way,
 


Context is everything for football supporters when they describe a game.

Imagine (if you can) that we are high flying Huddersfield, & we host mid to bottom of the table Villa, who hadn't won a match all year until they started playing the shit teams.

Yet, they come here and out play us, & generally make us look a bit shit and ordinary. Somehow we mange to score the only goal of the game and scrape a lucky win, but guess what?- it probably is the worst game we've seen all year!

That's a Huddersfield fans perspective of a game they expected to win, but struggled to. It doesn't have to be ours! Villa fans who went to the game thought we played well.

Yes it isn't very pretty but this isn't a pretty division. For the last half a dozen games we have won or created enough chances to win. We are improving, slowly, but we are improving. If the direction of travel continues to be that then he should stay, if it doesn't then we have to think again - He has the basis of his team, they are starting to operate more like a team, and I am out of excuses for any further backward direction of travel, so this is it now - let's just see how it goes towards May.

I posted two links to that Huddersfield forum, the first included comments about how Villa were one of the best teams they'd seen there this season, almost everybody agreed they were lucky to get the three points and some wise tactical heads acknowledging how Bruce switched tactics after 10-15 minutes to get us pressing higher up the pitch and how it stopped them playing their natural game.

The game may have been dull for them to watch, we're used to dull football or at least 45 minutes a game of ugly football but there's no denying we very nearly pulled off a result. A point would have been fair, losing was cruel as they pretty much won the game with their only real attempt on goal. I think most on here would have been happy before the game with a point.

Saturday should be interesting as we need to show that not only can we dig in and frustrate teams but we can also dictate the game at home and start playing more adventurous football especially considering the talent we have. I'm still giving Bruce until the end of the season to show what he can or can't do. Any talk of giving him next season right now can only be because fans don't want to change manager again. He's done little to convince me he deserves next season but despite losing on Tuesday, crazy as it may seem, I'm more encouraged than I was the previous Saturday when we won.

It's Bruce's job to lose. He has to earn the right to be here next season as if we fail we really will be financially in the brown stuff.

Offline old man villa fan

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1301 on: March 10, 2017, 04:30:34 PM »
As far as promotion is concerned, this season has gone and it's now all about next season.  We have to make the call on the manager the day this season finishes.  The manager for next season has to have the pre-season.  As we found out this season, dropping too far behind and not having a balanced squad, doesn't give a new manager any chance of automatic promotion and only a slim chance of making the play-offs.

If we stick with Bruce, I don't think there are any second chances into next season.  I don't think what we did this season with RDM would be in the best interests of the Club.  If it looks as if promotion is out of the question, we should be realistic and rebuild for the following season.  I know you should never give up but at some point you have give up on the "we go again" and change to a total rebuild from the bottom.  We have had too many seasons of being frightened of what might happen for it to eventually happen.

There are no guarantees in football but you must plan ahead realistically to give yourself the best chance.  We have to finish this season on an upward curve from both results and performance so that a judgement can be made on whether a continuation will be enough to finish in the top two next season, with a play-off spot being only a fallback position.

It will be a big call in May but the Club has to make it and then back the manager for next season.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1302 on: March 10, 2017, 05:29:02 PM »
....so how does that align with us having 20 odd shots a game? Do you belive they have done that despite being told not to?

Of course not, but how does having that many shots align with us being one of the lowest scoring teams in the league?

Offline john e

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1303 on: March 10, 2017, 05:37:06 PM »

I'm panicking, because I just don't think we are 'getting there'

........ when its producing zero positive results this season

We'd won three games in a row without conceding prior to Tuesday's night's unlucky result (and yes, due to 30 seconds of complacency we conceded a goal).

I know it's amazing after all this success and just being a bit unlucky here and there we are still  15th in a league full of dross


Is there much point in making the point when you're so entrenched in your view that you're unwilling to concede that there's be a positive result this season off the back of our longest winning run in 7 years?

even Steve Bruce would struggle to lose every single game, although he was having a good go to be fair, Coco the clown would churn out a result or two in this league

the zero positive comment was that I cannot see how we are any further forward at all since he came in, in fact I believe he has taken us backwards so his overall effect on us is zero

we are 15th in the league and he has somehow managed to write off the second half of the season, its unforgivable really and I find nothing (zero) to be positive about for another season of this rubbish

'say what you see' as Roy Walker would say, and I'm seeing a diet of rubbish near'on twice weekly




Offline Ads

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1304 on: March 10, 2017, 05:50:10 PM »
Did you watch the Huddersfield game John? As if you did you'd see the reason they were saying it was the worst they'd played, because they lumped the ball from the back as if there were four under pressure Baker's on. That was down to us pressing them.

We played well, it was a very tight game. On balance we were the better side.

If you didn't see then I'm not sure how you can comment.