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Re: Other Games - 2017/18 by Chris Jameson
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Re: Bruce out? by Clampy
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Re: Bruce out? by Tugby Villain
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Re: Bruce out? by Toronto Villa
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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 320273 times)

Offline LeeB

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1125 on: March 06, 2017, 04:25:21 PM »
When we do try to pass the ball all too often we're doing it in the wrong areas and at a very 'easy' tempo.

I firmly believe that the style bruce likes to use is focus on defensive shape and keeping things tight for 60-70 minutes and then having short spells where the team are free to attack.  We start ok, have 10-15 minutes and then we go defensive, and then we have a spell after about an hour where we play for 10-15 minutes.  Those are the only periods where we actually try to win the game.  I understand it, it's a 'earn the right to play' approach, but it does mean there will be plenty of times where we pick the ball up near our own box and have no option but to lump it forward and hope the striker can either hold onto it for a bit or score a solo effort. The problems I have with it are that if we concede he doesn't seem to have another plan and it seems unsuited to a team that expects to win more often than not.

Despite how it may come across I don't want us to play tiki-taka I think that only works if you have 2-3 game changers (such as messi, neymar and suarez) who only need half a yard of space to make something happen.  When I talk about Barcelona I spend far more time praising the way they defend than I do talking about their attacking and passing.  What I want to see us do is be able to adapt to what's in front of us.  I want everyone to be confident they can trap a ball and receive a pass with a man at their back.  I want us to have movement off the ball that opens gaps and players willing to play high risk/high reward passes when those gaps appear to try to make things happen.

What I don't want is a team that's scared to have the ball and that's what I think we are right now.  I'm more than happy to be proven wrong but I just don't see Bruce or this coaching team as being willing or able to fix that.

Some of the stuff Southampton played under Koeman looked like a decent mix of possession football and the more traditional approach.  Looked like the type of thing easier to replicate than Barca or Tony Mowbray's tiki taka.

Pochettino before him had obviously placed the emphasis purely on movement and possession football. Which looks great when everyone is on song and you can wear the opposition down with your tempo and probe for openings.  But under Koeman they weren't afraid to get the ball out wide to Tadic and look for Pele in the box.  The key was that wan't their only method of attack.




"Tony Mowbray's Tiki-Taka" sounds like one of those 1.99 Spectrum games you could buy in the local newsagents.

Online Dave

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1126 on: March 06, 2017, 04:48:11 PM »
I don't think we play long ball, as that implies a deliberate tactic.

Quite right - I think any accusation that we have deliberate tactics should be rejected outright.


(winky face)

Offline Ads

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1127 on: March 06, 2017, 04:50:14 PM »
No need to be facetious when I've made the same point. 

Online Dave

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1128 on: March 06, 2017, 05:03:06 PM »
No need to be facetious when I've made the same point.

I wasn't being facetious. Not every post replying to you is a personal sleight.

Offline IAmTheOneIanOlney

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1129 on: March 06, 2017, 05:03:58 PM »
I think part of the problem is that we've been spoilt rotten with the standard of football we've seen in recent seasons, whoever was appointed manager was always going to have a lot to live up to. I think we should stick with him, despite the fact he's had 5 months to sort things out.

the bar is set very low

but we don't have to keep lowering it
That's what happens when you're in limbo.

Offline Ads

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1130 on: March 06, 2017, 05:39:04 PM »
No need to be facetious when I've made the same point.

I wasn't being facetious. Not every post replying to you is a personal sleight.

I sense the unspoken message here. Outside you dandy!

Offline dave.woodhall

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1131 on: March 06, 2017, 06:00:47 PM »
A lot of people moaned about the performance at Rotherham.  If we were top of the league you can bet that most of them would have called it a professional performance - turn up,  three points,  job done.

Offline Ads

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1132 on: March 06, 2017, 06:11:14 PM »
A lot of people moaned about the performance at Rotherham.  If we were top of the league you can bet that most of them would have called it a professional performance - turn up,  three points,  job done.

It was irritating to watch as we just couldn't string a few passes together, but that said we could have easily have been a few up at half time.

Offline wittonwarrior

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1133 on: March 06, 2017, 06:11:20 PM »
A lot of people moaned about the performance at Rotherham.  If we were top of the league you can bet that most of them would have called it a professional performance - turn up,  three points,  job done.

I think it was a decent performance overall.   What I think people are edging  at is don't vote to remain on the back of  beating Rotherham.  The next two games are big in terms of evaluating  Steve Bruce, if we get slaughtered in both then the gloves are off, decent performances and a couple of points will take the heat of SB for the rest of the season.

Offline RichardBatchelor

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1134 on: March 06, 2017, 06:35:40 PM »
There will be Chelsea and Newcastle fans moaning on boards that they are not happy with the style of football being played. United have won a cup already, it will be the same over there. West Brom are having their most successful season ever and I have no doubt there will be some saying the same thing over there and dont get me started on the West Ham Way. At the opposite end of the scale there will be Arsenal fans complaining their football is too nice and they need to win ugly- that the result is more important than the method.

Ultimately, we have a new squad at a club that has been through the wringer and been beaten down for a good few years. We are everyones favourite scalp at the moment and I have no doubt whatsoever that teams raise their game higher against us than Reading, Huddersfield, QPR etc. We dont need pretty football at the moment, we need wins but it is nowhere near as bad as John sees it in my opinion. I have complete faith Bruce will take us up next season and have seen enough to believe we have the talent to develop the football at the same time

Excellent post with many good points I agree with. That said, I live abroad and don't shell out for the poor football, so I guess the paying customer must decide the lesser of the evils.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1135 on: March 06, 2017, 06:40:42 PM »
Rotherham was a no-win game for Bruce really, beat them and it's because they're shit and practically relegated, lose to them and everything is shit.  Bristol City was the same so whilst the 6 points from those 2 were needed and very welcome neither of them really changes the conversation, other than to put the buffer between us and relegation spots which means there's no rush to make a decision either way.

That's why the upshot from these results is that he now needs to show that he can get the team playing in a way that gives the fans some optimism that we can get back up next year.  We need to show that we can get to 75 points next season (which pretty guarantees a play off place) so 5-6 in the next 11 along with 2-3 draws is the sort of form we should to be looking for from here.  If he can't manage that then the question marks aren't going away.

Offline Mister E

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1136 on: March 06, 2017, 06:43:49 PM »
A lot of people moaned about the performance at Rotherham.  If we were top of the league you can bet that most of them would have called it a professional performance - turn up,  three points,  job done.
Spot on.
After all the shit, just stringing some wins together was enough for me. And the people who travelled seemed delighted with the win.
As has been said elsewhere on H&V, the first step to recovery is stabilising the club after years of cluelessness and drift.
If you get my drift ...

Offline supertom

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1137 on: March 06, 2017, 07:16:33 PM »
Given our injury list and losing two players during the game, I think it was a decent performance against Rotherham. We did our job, despite losing one player to injury, and then his substitute to injury.

Offline old man villa fan

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1138 on: March 06, 2017, 09:26:45 PM »
I don't think we play long ball, as that implies a deliberate tactic. My biggest criticism would be that until that first goal goes in or after a bright start, we look devoid of a method of attack, long ball or otherwise.

We play long ball by default because we don't have much of a plan and our players aren't comfortable receiving the ball in tight spaces so we drift backwards until the inevitable hoof up field which we don't have the players to utilise so we lose possession and the cycle starts again.  That's why I think it's a coaching issue, In my opinion we need to get the players willing to play in the opposition half and not always playing it safe.  I don't believe, from what I've seen, that Bruce agrees with that even though he's signed players like Hourihane and Hogan who would benefit from it.

I would agree that we play the long ball due to necessity, rather than by design.  What I struggle to understand is why we do not appear to have ways of working the ball forward from the goalkeeper or defenders to the front.  You only need probably 3 different plays but that means 3 players making themselves available and that is where it falls down.  We are basically a stand and watch team and the 2 that do not receive the pass feel as though it is not worth the effort to make the runs (that's how it seems to me, anyway) if they are not going to receive the ball.

Offline Sexual Ealing

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #1139 on: March 06, 2017, 09:32:47 PM »
I don't think we play long ball, as that implies a deliberate tactic. My biggest criticism would be that until that first goal goes in or after a bright start, we look devoid of a method of attack, long ball or otherwise.

I don't disagree with that. Surely that's worse than deploying an attacking tactic (any attacking tactic)?!