Bruce Sacked at last (now official)

[Canadian Villa]

Roy Hodgeson said it at the weekend 'you can lead the horse to water', but it's down to the players to put in the desire. I don't see it based on a particular type of play. Sure, get the fittest players you can find but if they can't pass straight then you can't play fast football.

What you can do is build an environment that players want to be a part of and can thrive. Southampton have done it for years. We are a long away from that it seems.

I don't see the relevance of the Hodgson quote, I've already agreed that it's not about playstyle and 'being able to play football' is such a basic requirement for a football scout to look for that I didn't think it needed to be stated.

Building an environment that people want to be part of is exactly what I'm talking about though, you can't be everything to everyone so creating an environment that focuses on a handful of specifics and bringing through players that want to be part of that culture benefits everyone.  Some people will think that just making a professional culture is enough but it's not that simple, do you have strict rules and fines and treat everyone as if they're 1 second away from being a naughty little boy all the time or do you give a bit more freedom and trust the players to self-motivate?  You can't have both so you have to choose and then focus on players that respond well to the environment you create.  You also can't change from 1 to the other quickly.

Of course the Hodgeson quote is relevant. If the players don't want to play and give it their all then it doesn't matter what style you play.

[paul_e]

Roy Hodgeson said it at the weekend 'you can lead the horse to water', but it's down to the players to put in the desire. I don't see it based on a particular type of play. Sure, get the fittest players you can find but if they can't pass straight then you can't play fast football.

What you can do is build an environment that players want to be a part of and can thrive. Southampton have done it for years. We are a long away from that it seems.

I don't see the relevance of the Hodgson quote, I've already agreed that it's not about playstyle and 'being able to play football' is such a basic requirement for a football scout to look for that I didn't think it needed to be stated.

Building an environment that people want to be part of is exactly what I'm talking about though, you can't be everything to everyone so creating an environment that focuses on a handful of specifics and bringing through players that want to be part of that culture benefits everyone.  Some people will think that just making a professional culture is enough but it's not that simple, do you have strict rules and fines and treat everyone as if they're 1 second away from being a naughty little boy all the time or do you give a bit more freedom and trust the players to self-motivate?  You can't have both so you have to choose and then focus on players that respond well to the environment you create.  You also can't change from 1 to the other quickly.

Of course the Hodgeson quote is relevant. If the players don't want to play and give it their all then it doesn't matter what style you play.

Yes, but it doesn't change anything about what i said, hence i'm not sure what relevance it has to the posts. 

[Drummond]

Roy Hodgeson said it at the weekend 'you can lead the horse to water', but it's down to the players to put in the desire. I don't see it based on a particular type of play. Sure, get the fittest players you can find but if they can't pass straight then you can't play fast football.

What you can do is build an environment that players want to be a part of and can thrive. Southampton have done it for years. We are a long away from that it seems.

I don't see the relevance of the Hodgson quote, I've already agreed that it's not about playstyle and 'being able to play football' is such a basic requirement for a football scout to look for that I didn't think it needed to be stated.

Building an environment that people want to be part of is exactly what I'm talking about though, you can't be everything to everyone so creating an environment that focuses on a handful of specifics and bringing through players that want to be part of that culture benefits everyone.  Some people will think that just making a professional culture is enough but it's not that simple, do you have strict rules and fines and treat everyone as if they're 1 second away from being a naughty little boy all the time or do you give a bit more freedom and trust the players to self-motivate?  You can't have both so you have to choose and then focus on players that respond well to the environment you create.  You also can't change from 1 to the other quickly.

Of course the Hodgeson quote is relevant. If the players don't want to play and give it their all then it doesn't matter what style you play.

Yes, but it doesn't change anything about what i said, hence i'm not sure what relevance it has to the posts.

You can try and have any style you like, hard workers, flair players, counter-attacking, defend at all costs, diamonds, 4-4-2, developing the youth, signing the best players in the world on the most money, whatever you want but if you don;'t find the right players, you're fucked. It's pretty clear what he meant and the relevance of the post.

Look at Richards, Agbonlahor, Lescott, N'Zogbia, etc and whatever the style the club has/d they won't/wouldn't fucking do it.

[Risso]

The bigger issue isn't play style, it's his approach to transfers.  If he, as expected, gets given a chance in the premier league I'd worry about the recruitment he'd do given a budget of £100m or more.  His approach has always been pretty scattergun and he's always struggled most when he' had a big budget.  I don't think I  could handle getting promoted only for him to spend £15-20m on the next Connor Wickham as his biggest signing.

But I think his scattergun approach to transfers is precisely because he doesn't have a recognisable style.  At times last season he didn't even seem to know what formation to play, with comments like "we'll have a little go at 5-3-2". If you haven't got a recognisable style, your approach to transfers is going to be scattergun by definition, as players won't be bought for a defined role.  Look at the likes of Bjarnason, Hogan, Bree and Lansbury for examples.

[paul_e]

Roy Hodgeson said it at the weekend 'you can lead the horse to water', but it's down to the players to put in the desire. I don't see it based on a particular type of play. Sure, get the fittest players you can find but if they can't pass straight then you can't play fast football.

What you can do is build an environment that players want to be a part of and can thrive. Southampton have done it for years. We are a long away from that it seems.

I don't see the relevance of the Hodgson quote, I've already agreed that it's not about playstyle and 'being able to play football' is such a basic requirement for a football scout to look for that I didn't think it needed to be stated.

Building an environment that people want to be part of is exactly what I'm talking about though, you can't be everything to everyone so creating an environment that focuses on a handful of specifics and bringing through players that want to be part of that culture benefits everyone.  Some people will think that just making a professional culture is enough but it's not that simple, do you have strict rules and fines and treat everyone as if they're 1 second away from being a naughty little boy all the time or do you give a bit more freedom and trust the players to self-motivate?  You can't have both so you have to choose and then focus on players that respond well to the environment you create.  You also can't change from 1 to the other quickly.

Of course the Hodgeson quote is relevant. If the players don't want to play and give it their all then it doesn't matter what style you play.

Yes, but it doesn't change anything about what i said, hence i'm not sure what relevance it has to the posts.

You can try and have any style you like, hard workers, flair players, counter-attacking, defend at all costs, diamonds, 4-4-2, developing the youth, signing the best players in the world on the most money, whatever you want but if you don;'t find the right players, you're fucked. It's pretty clear what he meant and the relevance of the post.

Look at Richards, Agbonlahor, Lescott, N'Zogbia, etc and whatever the style the club has/d they won't/wouldn't fucking do it.

Yes of course it's true, but it doesn't add any value to a discussion about whether the should have a style that they employ management and players to suit. Any club, under any manager, can make bad signings and make a mess of things, even if the club is setup perfectly but it's not really relevant because it's not a reason to not try to set the club up better.  Not having any plans for continuity has played a huge part in us becoming what we are right now, poor signings of players who don't fit is a symptom of the lack of club culture rather than the reason for it.  Remember a big part of not fitting in at a club is always going to be related to what happens on the pitch so having a style and players that can come in and be effective is a great way to help build that group mentality.

[Chris Smith]

The bigger issue isn't play style, it's his approach to transfers.  If he, as expected, gets given a chance in the premier league I'd worry about the recruitment he'd do given a budget of £100m or more.  His approach has always been pretty scattergun and he's always struggled most when he' had a big budget.  I don't think I  could handle getting promoted only for him to spend £15-20m on the next Connor Wickham as his biggest signing.

But I think his scattergun approach to transfers is precisely because he doesn't have a recognisable style.  At times last season he didn't even seem to know what formation to play, with comments like "we'll have a little go at 5-3-2". If you haven't got a recognisable style, your approach to transfers is going to be scattergun by definition, as players won't be bought for a defined role.  Look at the likes of Bjarnason, Hogan, Bree and Lansbury for examples.

Surely the approach to transfer is down to Round and Wyness rather than the manager? That was certainly what we were told at the outset.

Not all signings have worked, they never do, but we at least now have a squad that has been able to cope with injuries to key players fairly well.

[Drummond]

We have to remember that The Villa Engine is being run throughout the club except, at present, for the the First Team. We're clearly working behind the scenes at the 'style' and at the moment it's too early to implement but in time it must be. Starting at the bottom up makes sense to me.

[Mister E]

We have to remember that The Villa Engine is being run throughout the club except, at present, for the the First Team. We're clearly working behind the scenes at the 'style' and at the moment it's too early to implement but in time it must be. Starting at the bottom up makes sense to me.

Is it? - I haven't read anywhere that it has actually been defined and is actually being deployed.

[john e]

We have to remember that The Villa Engine is being run throughout the club except, at present, for the the First Team. We're clearly working behind the scenes at the 'style' and at the moment it's too early to implement but in time it must be. Starting at the bottom up makes sense to me.

anyone know what the Villa engine style is that's running throughout the club apart from at first team level
I don't see youth or reserve games so just wondering if anyone's seen a more consistent approach at those levels ?

[Ads]

The Villa Engine name comes in for a lot of stick. I cannot abide hearing the use of the word way in this context. The "West Ham Way". What way is that? Winning fuck all but a post code lottery that appears to keep you relevant?

[Drummond]

I don't know what it is, and I'm pretty sure it's not something that will be shared widely as the club will want to develop in house and not let competitors in on it (that may be naive). I guess the thing s that the club have talked about it, about embedding a culture and adopting it across all playign groups. It has to be the way forward rather than each age group doing things differently.

[john e]

could be a good thing could be marketing gobbledygook who knows

[Canadian Villa]

It is a bit of marketing bollocks. The same as West Ham. The club is trying to create an identity, a culture, a vision or whatever you want to call it to bring a bit of unity and togetherness for the fans. The club wants to see an atmosphere like the German clubs that brings more people in, locks them in for life (not physically obv) and wins repeat business for years to come and can subtle raise prices. None of this is attributed to the actual style of play of the pitch. 99% of owners will tell you that they want fast, attacking, exciting football. 99% of managers will tell you that they want the same. Wonder what the % is that managers are completely honest and don't believe that they can play way with the resources that they have. It's all crap that we are fed.

And having a team play a certain formation from 1st to youth is bollocks too. That philosophy was en vogue about 15 years ago and soon went out of the window.

[Legion]

We have to remember that The Villa Engine is being run throughout the club except, at present, for the the First Team. We're clearly working behind the scenes at the 'style' and at the moment it's too early to implement but in time it must be. Starting at the bottom up makes sense to me.

anyone know what the Villa engine style is that's running throughout the club apart from at first team level
I don't see youth or reserve games so just wondering if anyone's seen a more consistent approach at those levels ?

All academy teams are expected to play in a particular style from the U7s up to at least the U18s.

[Canadian Villa]

We have to remember that The Villa Engine is being run throughout the club except, at present, for the the First Team. We're clearly working behind the scenes at the 'style' and at the moment it's too early to implement but in time it must be. Starting at the bottom up makes sense to me.

anyone know what the Villa engine style is that's running throughout the club apart from at first team level
I don't see youth or reserve games so just wondering if anyone's seen a more consistent approach at those levels ?

All academy teams are expected to play in a particular style from the U7s up to at least the U18s.

What style is that?