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Author Topic: The Cricket Thread 2017  (Read 103308 times)

Offline Chris Jameson

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #900 on: August 11, 2017, 01:29:44 PM »
I've always disliked Boycott although he's an excellent summariser but was really surprised when my brother was invited on to Test Match Special and he said how friendly and welcoming he was and keen to know more about the charity, unlike another former Yorkshire Test opener. A friend of my dad played for many years with Boycott at Yorkshire and has nothing but good to say about him. I'm warming to him.

Offline AVH87

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #901 on: August 11, 2017, 01:50:21 PM »
I guess Burns will have to wait for one or two more failures to be considered for an opportunity.

Put another way, it is 16-18 innings. A lot less than England batsmen get given before they are written off as being not good enough. Whilst Hameed didn't do a bad job in India, the slow/low pitches meant I wasn't sold based on that alone, and in more testing swinging conditions back home he has been found out, as I believe he would be against genuine pace on bouncy, Australian tracks.

I'm obviously not privy to selection discussions, but I've never really seen Burns linked or talked about in regards to national selection.  It's getting pretty desperate though, so I wouldn't rule out anyone at this juncture. 

I guess time will tell with Hameed.

It will. The frustration for me is most people assuming he's going to be great based on 3 pretty decent matches in India, but then a much bigger chunk of games (8-9 poor games this season as you alluded to above) isn't enough to judge him on.

Offline Woofles The Wonder Dog

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #902 on: August 11, 2017, 04:44:31 PM »
I guess Burns will have to wait for one or two more failures to be considered for an opportunity.

Put another way, it is 16-18 innings. A lot less than England batsmen get given before they are written off as being not good enough. Whilst Hameed didn't do a bad job in India, the slow/low pitches meant I wasn't sold based on that alone, and in more testing swinging conditions back home he has been found out, as I believe he would be against genuine pace on bouncy, Australian tracks.

I'm obviously not privy to selection discussions, but I've never really seen Burns linked or talked about in regards to national selection.  It's getting pretty desperate though, so I wouldn't rule out anyone at this juncture. 

I guess time will tell with Hameed.

It will. The frustration for me is most people assuming he's going to be great based on 3 pretty decent matches in India, but then a much bigger chunk of games (8-9 poor games this season as you alluded to above) isn't enough to judge him on.

I think most people think he's going to be great because last season he scored 1,198 Championship runs for Lancashire last season at an average of a squint under 50. Then looked pretty solid in the tests he played. Yes, he's faltered this season, but there's good grounds to think he'll be something fairly special.

Offline Chris Jameson

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #903 on: August 11, 2017, 05:52:24 PM »
He's only a young lad, it's very unfair to write him off already because he's struggling with the second album.

Online paul_e

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #904 on: August 11, 2017, 06:01:38 PM »
I guess Burns will have to wait for one or two more failures to be considered for an opportunity.

Put another way, it is 16-18 innings. A lot less than England batsmen get given before they are written off as being not good enough. Whilst Hameed didn't do a bad job in India, the slow/low pitches meant I wasn't sold based on that alone, and in more testing swinging conditions back home he has been found out, as I believe he would be against genuine pace on bouncy, Australian tracks.

I'm obviously not privy to selection discussions, but I've never really seen Burns linked or talked about in regards to national selection.  It's getting pretty desperate though, so I wouldn't rule out anyone at this juncture. 

I guess time will tell with Hameed.

It will. The frustration for me is most people assuming he's going to be great based on 3 pretty decent matches in India, but then a much bigger chunk of games (8-9 poor games this season as you alluded to above) isn't enough to judge him on.

I think most people think he's going to be great because last season he scored 1,198 Championship runs for Lancashire last season at an average of a squint under 50. Then looked pretty solid in the tests he played. Yes, he's faltered this season, but there's good grounds to think he'll be something fairly special.

and did it all as a teenager.

Offline Villan For Life

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #905 on: August 14, 2017, 04:02:13 PM »
Some interesting comments from Nick Compton:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40923351

I thought he'd be bitter but he's written a balanced account of his experiences.

Offline tomd2103

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #906 on: August 14, 2017, 11:55:01 PM »
Some interesting comments from Nick Compton:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40923351

I thought he'd be bitter but he's written a balanced account of his experiences.

Yep, an interesting insight.  Must not be an easy place to be, where you are trying so hard but nothing is going for you and all the time you are receiving a barrage of criticism in the press and every minute detail of your technique is being dissected.  You can see that players who try and alter their technique during a series often make things worse for themselves and also interesting to note that some of the better test players in recent times (Graeme Smith, Chanderpaul and Steve Smith for example) have had pretty unique techniques that would not be in any coaching manual. 

Online paul_e

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #907 on: August 15, 2017, 11:11:36 AM »
Having a unique technique is fine if it's effective but if, like Ballance for example, you have a clear flaw that you're not addressing and it's seeing you underperform them you have to accept the criticism.

Offline tomd2103

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #908 on: August 15, 2017, 12:57:55 PM »
Having a unique technique is fine if it's effective but if, like Ballance for example, you have a clear flaw that you're not addressing and it's seeing you underperform them you have to accept the criticism.

Agree Paul, but his technique must have been effective enough for him to get to test level in the first place and he had a good start to his test career.  The constant picking apart of a player's technique and suggestions on how to improve it must mean that they are going to the crease with their mind all over the place.   

Offline Dave Cooper please

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #909 on: August 15, 2017, 11:01:03 PM »
 But if they are performing then their technique won't be picked apart. The thing is for the player to listen only to those coaches he trusts to put it right, there is no need for any player to take any heed whatsoever of the pundits and commentators, if he does and then loses confidence because of it then it's his own fault really.

 As for the first point, you can get away with a flawed technique at County level, the best bowlers hardly play County cricket any more, it should be up to the coaches, including the England coaches if a player is on the radar, to pick up these flaws early so they are not bought into the Test arena when the time comes. There is enough technology about these days for every potential England players technique to be analysed before they get anywhere near the first XI.

Offline tomd2103

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #910 on: August 15, 2017, 11:57:16 PM »
But if they are performing then their technique won't be picked apart. The thing is for the player to listen only to those coaches he trusts to put it right, there is no need for any player to take any heed whatsoever of the pundits and commentators, if he does and then loses confidence because of it then it's his own fault really.

 As for the first point, you can get away with a flawed technique at County level, the best bowlers hardly play County cricket any more, it should be up to the coaches, including the England coaches if a player is on the radar, to pick up these flaws early so they are not bought into the Test arena when the time comes. There is enough technology about these days for every potential England players technique to be analysed before they get anywhere near the first XI.

First point - suppose so but Compton's piece gives an idea of how tough it must be when you are struggling at that level and how self doubt can begin to creep in.

Second point - that's a pretty damning assessment of County cricket then.  Let's be honest, the County Championship lost it's prestige a while ago and now serves primarily as a breeding ground for Team England.  If players are arriving at international level with major technical flaws that aren't being picked up at that level, then something is obviously wrong.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 08:19:59 AM by tomd2103 »

Online paul_e

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #911 on: August 16, 2017, 01:05:28 AM »
But if they are performing then their technique won't be picked apart. The thing is for the player to listen only to those coaches he trusts to put it right, there is no need for any player to take any heed whatsoever of the pundits and commentators, if he does and then loses confidence because of it then it's his own fault really.

 As for the first point, you can get away with a flawed technique at County level, the best bowlers hardly play County cricket any more, it should be up to the coaches, including the England coaches if a player is on the radar, to pick up these flaws early so they are not bought into the Test arena when the time comes. There is enough technology about these days for every potential England players technique to be analysed before they get anywhere near the first XI.

First point - suppose so but Compton's piece gives an idea of how tough it must be when you are struggling at that level and how self doubt can begin to creep in.

Second point - that's a pretty damning assessment of County cricket then.  Let's be honest, the County Championship list it's prestige a while ago and now serves primarily as a breeding ground for Team England.  If players are arriving at international level with major technical flaws that aren't being picked up at that level, then something is obviously wrong.

I think the last line there is fairly obviously true.  Fixing it is a bigger issue and requires the ICC to grow some balls and start managing the sport properly.
- The T20 franchises need to be properly organised and the time they take up in the calendar needs to be reduced.
- International tours and competitions need to be centralised (to an extent) and altered to allow senior players to play at county (and equivalent level) and to avoid players picking between money in the t20s and caps.
- T20 (and 50over) fielding restrictions need to be reviewed to better balance things between bat and ball in those formats.

On top of that the ECB needs to do more with the lions to find u23 players who have a solid technique and the right mentality instead of calling in players like Malan and Stoneman.  If someone in their late 20s (or 30s) is in good form then by all means give him a shot in the main squad but the lions needs to be a conveyer belt to bring players on and get them the extra coaching to make them ready.

Offline Dave Cooper please

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #912 on: August 16, 2017, 01:45:10 AM »

Second point - that's a pretty damning assessment of County cricket then.  Let's be honest, the County Championship list it's prestige a while ago and now serves primarily as a breeding ground for Team England.  If players are arriving at international level with major technical flaws that aren't being picked up at that level, then something is obviously wrong.

It is a damning assessment and is meant to be. If, as you say, the County Championship is meant to be a step on the way to International Cricket then the England coaches should be all over the most promising players and should be all over the coaching staff at the counties of those players. Players are still coming into the Test arena with basic flaws in technique that should have been picked up and ironed out when they first came onto the radar.
 Test cricket is brutal and unfortunately County cricket, as it currently stands, is not a good place to prepare for it.

Offline tomd2103

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #913 on: August 16, 2017, 01:23:40 PM »

Second point - that's a pretty damning assessment of County cricket then.  Let's be honest, the County Championship list it's prestige a while ago and now serves primarily as a breeding ground for Team England.  If players are arriving at international level with major technical flaws that aren't being picked up at that level, then something is obviously wrong.

It is a damning assessment and is meant to be. If, as you say, the County Championship is meant to be a step on the way to International Cricket then the England coaches should be all over the most promising players and should be all over the coaching staff at the counties of those players. Players are still coming into the Test arena with basic flaws in technique that should have been picked up and ironed out when they first came onto the radar.
 Test cricket is brutal and unfortunately County cricket, as it currently stands, is not a good place to prepare for it.

I watch that 'Cricket Writers on TV' show and have heard it mentioned a few times that Bayliss spends a lot of his time back in Australia and has himself admitted that he doesn't watch much County cricket.  That suggests to me that his role doesn't really involve selection and that is done by others. 

On the subject of selection, the general feeling on the show on Sunday was that Woakes will come back in and that Mason Crane could play.   
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 01:26:11 PM by tomd2103 »

Offline Woofles The Wonder Dog

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #914 on: August 17, 2017, 09:29:42 AM »
Feels really weird waiting for the Test to kick off at 2. I like the idea though I hope the weather's warm for those of you going.

I've followed to a certain extent the story of the pink Duke ball, but am mightily puzzled as to why it should behave differently (e.g. go soft quicker, not take a shine) just because they dye it a different colour.