collapse collapse

Please donate to help keep this site going.

The Fanzine

Heroes & Villains Fanzine

Get your fix of all things Claret & Blue by subscribing to the online version!

* H&V Best Of

Recent Posts

Re: Jack Grealish by Ads
[Today at 08:13:33 AM]


Re: Jack Grealish by kieron
[Today at 07:21:31 AM]


Re: Jack Grealish by ROBBO
[Today at 07:12:45 AM]


Re: Tom Fox announced as new Villa CEO by Rudy Can't Fail
[Today at 01:36:26 AM]


Re: Meaning Evil. Stirring trouble by dave.woodhall
[Today at 12:52:09 AM]


Re: Tom Fox announced as new Villa CEO by eamonn
[Today at 12:51:16 AM]


Re: Chelsea Away by Brassneck
[Today at 12:17:31 AM]


Re: Chelsea Away by QuintonVilla
[November 18, 2019, 11:26:55 PM]

Follow us on...

Author Topic: The Cricket Thread 2017  (Read 103917 times)

Offline Villan For Life

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11969
  • Location: Exiled on Main Street
  • GM : 31.07.2020
Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #870 on: August 08, 2017, 01:20:00 PM »
Alex Hales seems to be in the form of his life at the moment, yesterday he scored a run a ball 218 for Notts against Derbyshire. Now admittedly that is in Division two but it's still a remarkable innings.

He was tried at test level last year and had a good run in the side. He passed 80 on three occasions but didn't go on to convert them into centuries. Maybe his decision not to tour Banglasdesh is being held against him but given the dearth of batting options I'd give him another chance.

It's very tempting to consider Hales at no.5 for England, as his recent scores are hard to ignore.

My concern is that his big 3 recent scores have either been in one-day competitions, or his First Class knock against weak bowling (Derbyshire at the bottom end of Div. 2). Now you can only score runs against what's served up in front of you, but it's whether he'll be capable of scoring against the genuine quicks down under this winter.

He has to be under consideration though, I'd also look at Rory Burns at Surrey, can open or bat no.5. If we want a younger player, Duckett and Joe Clarke are the best 2 talents from what I've seen.

I think Westley should be given an extended run as he has definitely shown enough in this series to suggest he is worth persevering with.  Jennings and Malan should make way, with Stoneman being given a chance to open and then I think we could experiment at five.

Stoneman is another one where the wealth of support he has is perplexing me a bit. He averages around 34 over a long First Class career, but just because he's moved to the fashionable county, Surrey, and had 1 good season he seems to be the name on everyone's lips. If I was picking one from there it would be Burns who is younger than Stoneman at 26/27, and averages 10 runs more than Stoneman and has a more solid technique.

I'd go:

Cook
Burns/Duckett
Westley
Root
Clarke/Hales

That's a very inexperienced line up with the first Ashes test just over three months away. Trouble is that we don't really have many other options.

It places a lot of pressure on Cook and Root and as always the Aussies will target them, particularly Root as the captain. If one or both of them fail then the pressure of the rest of the top five will be immense. We can't keep relying on Bairstow, Stokes and Ali to bail us out, numbers two, three and five must start contributing.

I'd go with this line up:

Cook
Hameed
Westley
Root
Hales

I'd make a statement and give them the change to cement a place in the Ashes side. If that doesn't work then I worry that the Aussies will punish us.

Offline Ads

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27255
  • Location: Welcome to Trasimene
  • GM : 26.03.2020
Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #871 on: August 08, 2017, 01:30:39 PM »
I'd go with Hales at 5 too.

Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Moeen

The alternative is to push everybody up and bring Woakes in.

Offline AVH87

  • Member
  • Posts: 1608
  • Location: Dudley
  • GM : 10.12.2015
Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #872 on: August 08, 2017, 01:36:08 PM »

Stoneman is another one where the wealth of support he has is perplexing me a bit. He averages around 34 over a long First Class career, but just because he's moved to the fashionable county, Surrey, and had 1 good season he seems to be the name on everyone's lips. If I was picking one from there it would be Burns who is younger than Stoneman at 26/27, and averages 10 runs more than Stoneman and has a more solid technique.

I'd go:

Cook
Burns/Duckett
Westley
Root
Clarke/Hales

That's a very inexperienced line up with the first Ashes test just over three months away. Trouble is that we don't really have many other options.

It places a lot of pressure on Cook and Root and as always the Aussies will target them, particularly Root as the captain. If one or both of them fail then the pressure of the rest of the top five will be immense. We can't keep relying on Bairstow, Stokes and Ali to bail us out, numbers two, three and five must start contributing.

I'd go with this line up:

Cook
Hameed
Westley
Root
Hales

I'd make a statement and give them the change to cement a place in the Ashes side. If that doesn't work then I worry that the Aussies will punish us.

It is far from ideal having 3 unproven bats in the first 5 for an Ashes, but other than Ballance or Jennings there aren't a lot of options, as you say.

Of the positions I put 2 possibilities for, if they went for Duckett and Hales, it's actually got more Test Match experience than the team you've gone for, just!

Offline tomd2103

  • Member
  • Posts: 10938
Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #873 on: August 08, 2017, 01:42:44 PM »
Stoneman has been ignored by a number of selectors over the years and is 30 years old. There is something that is seen and not liked by quite a few respected individuals.

I would guess they will revert to Hameed if Jennings is going to be stood down against the Windies. Hameed is the future and a natural replacement for Cook long term. He did little wrong in Bangladesh or India.

As to a "five". We seem to have a lot of Key/Hick cricketers currently, too good for county cricket but not quite test class,technically flawed at the highest level, found out by decent attecks. Of those I'd prefer the quick scoring Hales in full flow to that of Ballance, Jennings or someone else.

Fair enough about Stoneman, but there aren't really too many other options.  Hameed has been in rotten form since the winter, but is getting some runs in the latest match so it might be worth a gamble against the Windies. 

As for five, we also seem to have a group of players (Hales, Roy, Morgan, Buttler) who can take international attacks apart in white ball cricket but have struggled in the longer format when given the chance (can't recall Roy playing a test, but the other three have).  I have got a feeling that we may see Ballance at five when he has recovered from injury though.   
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 05:52:11 PM by tomd2103 »

Offline KevinGage

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10893
  • Location: Stocious in Seattle
  • GM : 20.09.20
Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #874 on: August 08, 2017, 03:45:56 PM »
Woakes would be nailed on for me for Australia. 

New ball pairing picks itself barring injury or disaster.

But you need a workhorse who can get through a lot of overs down there with a decent economy rate. Woakes now has that bit of nip now too to make him more than a medium pace trundler.   Stokes is a talent, but he needs to be wrapped in cotton wool. No question at all that he should be in the side, but killer long spells blunt his effectiveness and make him an injury doubt for later tests.

Moeen will obv be the nailed on spin option.

So you pick the rest of the side around that.


Offline tomd2103

  • Member
  • Posts: 10938
Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #875 on: August 08, 2017, 05:59:34 PM »
Woakes would be nailed on for me for Australia. 

New ball pairing picks itself barring injury or disaster.

But you need a workhorse who can get through a lot of overs down there with a decent economy rate. Woakes now has that bit of nip now too to make him more than a medium pace trundler.   Stokes is a talent, but he needs to be wrapped in cotton wool. No question at all that he should be in the side, but killer long spells blunt his effectiveness and make him an injury doubt for later tests.

Moeen will obv be the nailed on spin option.

So you pick the rest of the side around that.

I think Mark Wood is the type of bowler you are talking about, but it depends on whether he is going to be fit or not.  Interesting to hear Shane Warne's comments about selection last night. He's always had that positive approach to the game and his argument was that he would move Stokes or Bairstow to five, move Ali to seven, have Woakes at eight and the extra bowler at nine.  His logic was that Stokes or Bairstow are probably going to be better than any of the other options for that position, so why not play them there.

I think we are a bit more of a cautious lot though and I have to admit that a 6,7,8, 9 of Stokes, Bairstow, Ali and Woakes looks rock solid to me and they all seem comfortable in those respective positions. 

Offline Rotterdam

  • Member
  • Posts: 3778
  • Location: I used to play golf or be on the sofa in Dorridge. Now I've got kids...
Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #876 on: August 08, 2017, 06:03:59 PM »
Against the Windies, I'd go -
Cook
K-J
Westley
Root+
Bairstow*
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
R-J
Broad
Anderson

Hales and Malan make up the squad. Rashid if needed.


Offline Rotterdam

  • Member
  • Posts: 3778
  • Location: I used to play golf or be on the sofa in Dorridge. Now I've got kids...
Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #877 on: August 08, 2017, 06:05:21 PM »
I've just read your comments Tom, and it seems that I agree with Warne!

Offline KevinGage

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10893
  • Location: Stocious in Seattle
  • GM : 20.09.20
Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #878 on: August 08, 2017, 08:28:41 PM »
Woakes would be nailed on for me for Australia. 

New ball pairing picks itself barring injury or disaster.

But you need a workhorse who can get through a lot of overs down there with a decent economy rate. Woakes now has that bit of nip now too to make him more than a medium pace trundler.   Stokes is a talent, but he needs to be wrapped in cotton wool. No question at all that he should be in the side, but killer long spells blunt his effectiveness and make him an injury doubt for later tests.

Moeen will obv be the nailed on spin option.

So you pick the rest of the side around that.

I think Mark Wood is the type of bowler you are talking about, but it depends on whether he is going to be fit or not.  Interesting to hear Shane Warne's comments about selection last night. He's always had that positive approach to the game and his argument was that he would move Stokes or Bairstow to five, move Ali to seven, have Woakes at eight and the extra bowler at nine.  His logic was that Stokes or Bairstow are probably going to be better than any of the other options for that position, so why not play them there.

I think we are a bit more of a cautious lot though and I have to admit that a 6,7,8, 9 of Stokes, Bairstow, Ali and Woakes looks rock solid to me and they all seem comfortable in those respective positions. 

Wood is quicker than Stokes, obv. So is even more of an impact bowler.  Neither can really fulfill the role Hoggard performed in 2006, or Bresnan in 2010.

Wood is a nice option to have, if he's in good nick and injury free, a really good option to have.


Offline Villan For Life

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11969
  • Location: Exiled on Main Street
  • GM : 31.07.2020
Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #879 on: August 08, 2017, 10:08:19 PM »
Some interesting comments and stats in this article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40862946

Maybe Bayliss is too white ball centred?

Offline tomd2103

  • Member
  • Posts: 10938
Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #880 on: August 09, 2017, 10:59:14 AM »
Some interesting comments and stats in this article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40862946

Maybe Bayliss is too white ball centred?

Some interesting thoughts.  The top of the order has been an issue for sometime, with permanent replacements as of yet not being found for Strauss and Trott.  There have been some pretty awful collapses in the last couple of years as well, which would suggest all is not well.  That said, I still think 6-11 is as strong as it has been for some time and in Cook and Root, we have two world class top order batsmen.     

Offline Risso

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 53927
  • Location: Northants
  • GM : 13.02.2020
Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #881 on: August 09, 2017, 12:58:06 PM »
Some interesting comments and stats in this article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40862946

Maybe Bayliss is too white ball centred?

Some interesting thoughts.  The top of the order has been an issue for sometime, with permanent replacements as of yet not being found for Strauss and Trott.  There have been some pretty awful collapses in the last couple of years as well, which would suggest all is not well.  That said, I still think 6-11 is as strong as it has been for some time and in Cook and Root, we have two world class top order batsmen.   

Cook hasn't really been firing on all cylinders for a while. In his last 16 innings, there are no 100s and only 3 50s, for an average of 30.

Offline tomd2103

  • Member
  • Posts: 10938
Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #882 on: August 10, 2017, 07:44:06 PM »
Stoneman and Crane in for Jennings and Dawson.  Just watching Crane in a T20 and he looks a real prospect.  Absolutely bamboozled Jacques Rudolph with a googly which bowled him. 

Offline tomd2103

  • Member
  • Posts: 10938
Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #883 on: August 10, 2017, 07:55:36 PM »
To get away from the current team for a moment, I came across this the other day:



It's obviously a bit dated and a few of the choices are a bit lopsided, but a few pundits had a go at it and pretty much got the same team. I thought I would address the balance a bit below and bring it up to date (had to add three options in some places - my choices are in bold):

Atherton / Strauss
Trescothick / Cook
Vaughan / Hussain / Trott
Pietersen / Root
Bell / Thorpe / Collingwood
Stewart / Prior
Flintoff / Stokes
Swann / Giles / Moeen
Gough / Simon Jones
Caddick / Harmison / Broad
Anderson / Hoggard

Some tough choices and I just couldn't decide between KP and Root.

Offline cdbullyweefan

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 40501
  • Location: Yardley Massive
  • I still hate Bono.
    • Every time you click this link, a child in Africa dies.
  • GM : 17.01.2020
Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #884 on: August 10, 2017, 09:23:41 PM »
Root didn't make his debut until 2012 so wouldn't be eligible.