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Author Topic: The Cricket Thread 2017  (Read 104162 times)

Offline PaulWinch again

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #855 on: August 07, 2017, 06:45:18 PM »
Ali has been tremendous.

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #856 on: August 07, 2017, 07:04:48 PM »
Shocked at how empty Old Trafford was. I know it's a work day and England were in a very strong position but it was barely half full.

Offline Richard

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #857 on: August 07, 2017, 07:52:57 PM »
I think Woakes will come in at some point v West Indies even if to give Anderson a rest. Need to try out Rashid again or blood a new spinner too. Ditch Jennings and Malan, not sure about Westley yet.

Online Lastfootstamper

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #858 on: August 07, 2017, 09:00:42 PM »
Ali has been tremendous.

Leading wicket taker, 250-odd runs. TMS were on about him doing something that the four mighty all-rounders of the eighties hadn't managed, but owing to work interfering with my day, I didn't quite catch what they said. Was it 25 wickets and 250 runs in a series?

Bloke's feckin ace.

Offline KevinGage

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #859 on: August 07, 2017, 09:16:34 PM »
Probably no harm in alternating Broard and Anderson against the Windies. How far away has Steven Finn's game fallen?  He has always been an enigma, but the pace and bounce he can extract means he would be a contender for Australia under normal circumstances, even if he is only 70/80% firing.

Jennings' form is a concern, but if he can't keep the scoreboard moving on, the next best thing is to stay in and occupy the crease.  Take the shine off the new ball and avoid no 3 and especially Root coming in before the 10th over, which seemed to be happening way too often in the winter.

To kick on, he'll need scores. But I'd give him at least the first Windies test.

All the thinking is understandably geared to Nov 23 in Brisbane; and ideally you want as close to a settled XI as you can get by then.  But England and Australia are two flawed sides. Some of their batsmen seem happier in one day mode too. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that England could get something in the first test even with a top order nowhere near as competent as the one in 2010/11.

If changes have to be made again after Adelaide or Perth, so be it. Cast your mind back to Trott's debut at Lords for the 5th test in 2009. Far from ideal if you have to chop and change key positions mid series, but a player who has the mettle to come in and make an impact in high stakes cricket of that nature can set himself up for a notable career.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 09:54:54 PM by KevinGage »

Offline tomd2103

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #860 on: August 07, 2017, 09:25:16 PM »
Probably no harm in alternating Board and Anderson against the Windies. How far away has Steven Finn's game fallen?  He has always been an enigma, but the pace and bounce he can extract means he would be a contender for Australia under normal circumstances, even if he is only 70/80% firing.

Jennings' form is a concern, but if he can't keep the scoreboard moving on, the next best thing is to stay in and occupy the crease.  Take the shine off the new ball and avoid no 3 and especially Root coming in before the 10th over, which seemed to be happening way too often in the winter.

To kick on, he'll need scores. But I'd give him at least the first Windies test.

All the thinking is understandably geared to Nov 23 in Brisbane; and ideally you want as close to a settled XI as you can get by then.  But England and Australia are two flawed sides. Some of their batsmen seem happier in one day mode too. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that England could get something in the first test even with a top order nowhere near as competent as the one in 2010/11.

If changes have to be made again after Adelaide or Perth, so be it. Cast your mind back to Trott's debut at Lords for the 5th test in 2009. Far from ideal if you have to chop and change key positions mid series, but a player who has the mettle to come in and make an impact in high stakes cricket of that nature can set himself up for a notable career.

Bumble was advocating the team staying exactly the same for the first test against the West Indies, but I'm not so sure.  Is getting runs against inferior opposition simply going to cover up failings that will brutally exposed again down under. 

The quick turnaround may well mean we stay the same for Edgbaston, as integrating new players might take a bit longer.

Offline passitsideways

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #861 on: August 08, 2017, 12:41:51 AM »
Probably no harm in alternating Broard and Anderson against the Windies. How far away has Steven Finn's game fallen?  He has always been an enigma, but the pace and bounce he can extract means he would be a contender for Australia under normal circumstances, even if he is only 70/80% firing.

Jennings' form is a concern, but if he can't keep the scoreboard moving on, the next best thing is to stay in and occupy the crease.  Take the shine off the new ball and avoid no 3 and especially Root coming in before the 10th over, which seemed to be happening way too often in the winter.

To kick on, he'll need scores. But I'd give him at least the first Windies test.

All the thinking is understandably geared to Nov 23 in Brisbane; and ideally you want as close to a settled XI as you can get by then.  But England and Australia are two flawed sides. Some of their batsmen seem happier in one day mode too. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that England could get something in the first test even with a top order nowhere near as competent as the one in 2010/11.

If changes have to be made again after Adelaide or Perth, so be it. Cast your mind back to Trott's debut at Lords for the 5th test in 2009. Far from ideal if you have to chop and change key positions mid series, but a player who has the mettle to come in and make an impact in high stakes cricket of that nature can set himself up for a notable career.

If we throw out the pitches we've had for the past few years, I don't think batting will be an issue for either side - the fact that you lot bat deep should be more than enough to make up for the shakiness of the specialist batsmen. Think the key will be whether the pace attack can be sufficiently threatening for long enough - I know Moeen's improved and all recently, but given that the likes of Yasir and Ashwin have copped hammerings down here, have to be realistic about what he can manage.

Offline AVH87

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #862 on: August 08, 2017, 09:54:02 AM »
Bit quick to write Hameed off so soon, unlessyoure a Lancashire member I doubt you've seen much of him, how do you come to the conclusion he's a poor player?

During 2017 his highlights total one hideously scratchy 50, where he scored at a third of the rate of his opening partner, and another 15 innings where he has not got past 50, as well as struggling for any kind of fluency whenever he bats.

Admittedly I haven't seen lots of him, but then neither have the people who think he is the next messiah and expect him to be able to deal with the likes of Cummins, Hazlewood and Starc bowling 90MPH+.

Offline Villan For Life

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #863 on: August 08, 2017, 10:29:15 AM »
Alex Hales seems to be in the form of his life at the moment, yesterday he scored a run a ball 218 for Notts against Derbyshire. Now admittedly that is in Division two but it's still a remarkable innings.

He was tried at test level last year and had a good run in the side. He passed 80 on three occasions but didn't go on to convert them into centuries. Maybe his decision not to tour Banglasdesh is being held against him but given the dearth of batting options I'd give him another chance.

Offline AVH87

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #864 on: August 08, 2017, 10:51:05 AM »
Alex Hales seems to be in the form of his life at the moment, yesterday he scored a run a ball 218 for Notts against Derbyshire. Now admittedly that is in Division two but it's still a remarkable innings.

He was tried at test level last year and had a good run in the side. He passed 80 on three occasions but didn't go on to convert them into centuries. Maybe his decision not to tour Banglasdesh is being held against him but given the dearth of batting options I'd give him another chance.

It's very tempting to consider Hales at no.5 for England, as his recent scores are hard to ignore.

My concern is that his big 3 recent scores have either been in one-day competitions, or his First Class knock against weak bowling (Derbyshire at the bottom end of Div. 2). Now you can only score runs against what's served up in front of you, but it's whether he'll be capable of scoring against the genuine quicks down under this winter.

He has to be under consideration though, I'd also look at Rory Burns at Surrey, can open or bat no.5. If we want a younger player, Duckett and Joe Clarke are the best 2 talents from what I've seen.

Offline tomd2103

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #865 on: August 08, 2017, 10:53:30 AM »
Probably no harm in alternating Broard and Anderson against the Windies. How far away has Steven Finn's game fallen?  He has always been an enigma, but the pace and bounce he can extract means he would be a contender for Australia under normal circumstances, even if he is only 70/80% firing.

Jennings' form is a concern, but if he can't keep the scoreboard moving on, the next best thing is to stay in and occupy the crease.  Take the shine off the new ball and avoid no 3 and especially Root coming in before the 10th over, which seemed to be happening way too often in the winter.

To kick on, he'll need scores. But I'd give him at least the first Windies test.

All the thinking is understandably geared to Nov 23 in Brisbane; and ideally you want as close to a settled XI as you can get by then.  But England and Australia are two flawed sides. Some of their batsmen seem happier in one day mode too. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that England could get something in the first test even with a top order nowhere near as competent as the one in 2010/11.

If changes have to be made again after Adelaide or Perth, so be it. Cast your mind back to Trott's debut at Lords for the 5th test in 2009. Far from ideal if you have to chop and change key positions mid series, but a player who has the mettle to come in and make an impact in high stakes cricket of that nature can set himself up for a notable career.

If we throw out the pitches we've had for the past few years, I don't think batting will be an issue for either side - the fact that you lot bat deep should be more than enough to make up for the shakiness of the specialist batsmen. Think the key will be whether the pace attack can be sufficiently threatening for long enough - I know Moeen's improved and all recently, but given that the likes of Yasir and Ashwin have copped hammerings down here, have to be realistic about what he can manage.

Not so sure about that, as we have shown on a number of occasions that we tend to just fold when we are really up against it.  I think our bowling attack will be OK down under and I think it will suit the likes of Wood probably a bit more than conditions up here do.  My one concern in the seam attack would be Jimmy Anderson, who tends to become a bit of a target if the ball is not swinging. 

Nasser Hussain was talking about the challenges Moeen will face down there with the pitches and the different type of ball and I think the Aussies will try and target him in particular.  Interesting to hear Shane Warne saying after the game yesterday that he would find a place in the side for a leg spinner and would go for either Rashid or Crane.   

Offline tomd2103

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #866 on: August 08, 2017, 10:57:03 AM »
Alex Hales seems to be in the form of his life at the moment, yesterday he scored a run a ball 218 for Notts against Derbyshire. Now admittedly that is in Division two but it's still a remarkable innings.

He was tried at test level last year and had a good run in the side. He passed 80 on three occasions but didn't go on to convert them into centuries. Maybe his decision not to tour Banglasdesh is being held against him but given the dearth of batting options I'd give him another chance.

It's very tempting to consider Hales at no.5 for England, as his recent scores are hard to ignore.

My concern is that his big 3 recent scores have either been in one-day competitions, or his First Class knock against weak bowling (Derbyshire at the bottom end of Div. 2). Now you can only score runs against what's served up in front of you, but it's whether he'll be capable of scoring against the genuine quicks down under this winter.

He has to be under consideration though, I'd also look at Rory Burns at Surrey, can open or bat no.5. If we want a younger player, Duckett and Joe Clarke are the best 2 talents from what I've seen.

I think Westley should be given an extended run as he has definitely shown enough in this series to suggest he is worth persevering with.  Jennings and Malan should make way, with Stoneman being given a chance to open and then I think we could experiment at five. 

Offline AVH87

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #867 on: August 08, 2017, 11:04:35 AM »
Alex Hales seems to be in the form of his life at the moment, yesterday he scored a run a ball 218 for Notts against Derbyshire. Now admittedly that is in Division two but it's still a remarkable innings.

He was tried at test level last year and had a good run in the side. He passed 80 on three occasions but didn't go on to convert them into centuries. Maybe his decision not to tour Banglasdesh is being held against him but given the dearth of batting options I'd give him another chance.

It's very tempting to consider Hales at no.5 for England, as his recent scores are hard to ignore.

My concern is that his big 3 recent scores have either been in one-day competitions, or his First Class knock against weak bowling (Derbyshire at the bottom end of Div. 2). Now you can only score runs against what's served up in front of you, but it's whether he'll be capable of scoring against the genuine quicks down under this winter.

He has to be under consideration though, I'd also look at Rory Burns at Surrey, can open or bat no.5. If we want a younger player, Duckett and Joe Clarke are the best 2 talents from what I've seen.

I think Westley should be given an extended run as he has definitely shown enough in this series to suggest he is worth persevering with.  Jennings and Malan should make way, with Stoneman being given a chance to open and then I think we could experiment at five.

Stoneman is another one where the wealth of support he has is perplexing me a bit. He averages around 34 over a long First Class career, but just because he's moved to the fashionable county, Surrey, and had 1 good season he seems to be the name on everyone's lips. If I was picking one from there it would be Burns who is younger than Stoneman at 26/27, and averages 10 runs more than Stoneman and has a more solid technique.

I'd go:

Cook
Burns/Duckett
Westley
Root
Clarke/Hales

Offline tomd2103

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #868 on: August 08, 2017, 12:47:42 PM »
Alex Hales seems to be in the form of his life at the moment, yesterday he scored a run a ball 218 for Notts against Derbyshire. Now admittedly that is in Division two but it's still a remarkable innings.

He was tried at test level last year and had a good run in the side. He passed 80 on three occasions but didn't go on to convert them into centuries. Maybe his decision not to tour Banglasdesh is being held against him but given the dearth of batting options I'd give him another chance.

It's very tempting to consider Hales at no.5 for England, as his recent scores are hard to ignore.

My concern is that his big 3 recent scores have either been in one-day competitions, or his First Class knock against weak bowling (Derbyshire at the bottom end of Div. 2). Now you can only score runs against what's served up in front of you, but it's whether he'll be capable of scoring against the genuine quicks down under this winter.

He has to be under consideration though, I'd also look at Rory Burns at Surrey, can open or bat no.5. If we want a younger player, Duckett and Joe Clarke are the best 2 talents from what I've seen.

I think Westley should be given an extended run as he has definitely shown enough in this series to suggest he is worth persevering with.  Jennings and Malan should make way, with Stoneman being given a chance to open and then I think we could experiment at five.

Stoneman is another one where the wealth of support he has is perplexing me a bit. He averages around 34 over a long First Class career, but just because he's moved to the fashionable county, Surrey, and had 1 good season he seems to be the name on everyone's lips. If I was picking one from there it would be Burns who is younger than Stoneman at 26/27, and averages 10 runs more than Stoneman and has a more solid technique.

I'd go:

Cook
Burns/Duckett
Westley
Root
Clarke/Hales

There were calls for Stoneman to play when he was up at Durham, so it's not just since he has been at Surrey (though I do accept the calls have probably got louder since he moved to The Oval!!).  I just think he has got to be given a chance or it undermines the whole county system a bit.  Not good enough then fine, we move on. 

The other train of thought would be to go with two young players in those positions and just give them time to bed in.   

Online simboy

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #869 on: August 08, 2017, 01:07:21 PM »
Stoneman has been ignored by a number of selectors over the years and is 30 years old. There is something that is seen and not liked by quite a few respected individuals.

I would guess they will revert to Hameed if Jennings is going to be stood down against the Windies. Hameed is the future and a natural replacement for Cook long term. He did little wrong in Bangladesh or India.

As to a "five". We seem to have a lot of Key/Hick cricketers currently, too good for county cricket but not quite test class,technically flawed at the highest level, found out by decent attecks. Of those I'd prefer the quick scoring Hales in full flow to that of Ballance, Jennings or someone else.