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Author Topic: The Cricket Thread 2017  (Read 103913 times)

Offline Chris Jameson

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #630 on: July 18, 2017, 01:54:17 PM »
I blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order.

Offline UK Redsox

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #631 on: July 18, 2017, 01:57:15 PM »
I blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order.

Doesn't seem to bother players from other countries

Even the Boycott-esque Test player Hashim Amla players in the IPL

Offline tomd2103

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #632 on: July 18, 2017, 06:34:07 PM »
The thing that's frustrating me about England's batting is that whilst bringing in any replacements for Dawson/Ballance/Jennings is a risk, there are no County Championship games going on during July at all, so there is no way of seeing who is in form, getting a closer look at their technique etc. Shoddy scheduling from the ECB, again in this country we don't help our national side enough.

I was thinking that myself, but not sure if the ICC trophy might have had an impact on scheduling.  The first test series of the summer usually starts before June. 

Offline paul_e

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #633 on: July 18, 2017, 07:22:27 PM »
I blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order.

Doesn't seem to bother players from other countries

Even the Boycott-esque Test player Hashim Amla players in the IPL

On top of that the best batsman we have is great in all 3 formats.

The problem is that we just don't seem to be able to get players who have the right technique and attitude in the top 5.

Offline PaulWinch again

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #634 on: July 18, 2017, 07:34:43 PM »
I blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order.

Doesn't seem to bother players from other countries

Even the Boycott-esque Test player Hashim Amla players in the IPL

On top of that the best batsman we have is great in all 3 formats.

The problem is that we just don't seem to be able to get players who have the right technique and attitude in the top 5.

Not sure that's true Root and Cook are fine and I have no problem with Bairstow. He played a poor shot yesterday but I think he can play the situation normally.

Offline Villan For Life

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #635 on: July 18, 2017, 07:58:14 PM »
The other player with "stickability" that we miss is Taylor. He seemed to have the technique and temperament to succeed at Test level.

Ali gets useful runs coming in down the order so I wonder if it's time to promote him. It's one thing scoring runs with the tail, it's far better to have a sound foundation  from your top order to build on when you get to number 7 or 8.

Ballance and Dawson should go and if he's fit Woakes should come back in. I'd keep Jennings and recall Hameed. Give them both the incentive that an Ashes place is up for grabs and they have the rest of the summer to claim it. Otherwise we risk returning to the chop and change selection of the 1980's and 1990's.

Online spangley1812

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #636 on: July 18, 2017, 09:40:56 PM »
From the Beeb

England's Gary Ballance has been ruled out of the third Test against South Africa at The Oval after fracturing his left index finger.

The Yorkshire batsman saw a surgeon in Leeds on Tuesday after being hit on the hand by a Morne Morkel bouncer in the heavy defeat at Trent Bridge.

The 27-year-old will continue to be monitored by England's medical team and could be fit for the fourth Test at Old Trafford next month.

The third Test begins on 27 July.

Uncapped trio Mark Stoneman, Tom Westley and Dawid Malan are among names the England selectors could choose from to replace Ballance in the line-up.

Left-hander Ballance, batting at three, has struggled for runs in England's opening two Tests of the summer.

He scored just 20 and 34 as England won the opening Test of the best-of-four series, and contributed a total of just 31 as the hosts succumbed to a 340-run defeat at Trent Bridge.

Offline paul_e

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #637 on: July 18, 2017, 10:38:28 PM »
I blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order.

Doesn't seem to bother players from other countries

Even the Boycott-esque Test player Hashim Amla players in the IPL

On top of that the best batsman we have is great in all 3 formats.

The problem is that we just don't seem to be able to get players who have the right technique and attitude in the top 5.

Not sure that's true Root and Cook are fine and I have no problem with Bairstow. He played a poor shot yesterday but I think he can play the situation normally.

Sorry, I should have said enough players with ...

I agree those 3 are fine and Ali, Stokes and Woakes are as good a 7, 8 and 9 as any in world cricket and should be played as such, I know some people will say that the first 2 are too good to be that low but there's no point promoting them and bringing in extra bowlers and you wouldn't bring in a dedicated batsman and play him below 7 so it's the best option.
The problem is that we really need to fill the other spots (2, 3 and 5 for me but Bairstow could easily jump up one).  I think Hameed will come back strong but this year was always going to be a tough one after such a quick rise last season but he's probably 2 years away really and the other 2 spots are anyone's guess.

I'd be tempted to take a look at Malan in place of Ballance but he's another who seems better suited to the limited overs stuff but there's no one else that's really jumping out.  Keeping Jennings therefore seems sensible and then we really need to find someone to come in at 5/6.  I honestly have no idea who that could be though.  A few years back it looked like Hain would be ideal to come in and take a spot like that but his game in the longer form seems to have abandoned him

Offline tomd2103

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #638 on: July 18, 2017, 11:30:49 PM »
I blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order.

Doesn't seem to bother players from other countries

Even the Boycott-esque Test player Hashim Amla players in the IPL

On top of that the best batsman we have is great in all 3 formats.

The problem is that we just don't seem to be able to get players who have the right technique and attitude in the top 5.

Not sure that's true Root and Cook are fine and I have no problem with Bairstow. He played a poor shot yesterday but I think he can play the situation normally.

Sorry, I should have said enough players with ...

I agree those 3 are fine and Ali, Stokes and Woakes are as good a 7, 8 and 9 as any in world cricket and should be played as such, I know some people will say that the first 2 are too good to be that low but there's no point promoting them and bringing in extra bowlers and you wouldn't bring in a dedicated batsman and play him below 7 so it's the best option.
The problem is that we really need to fill the other spots (2, 3 and 5 for me but Bairstow could easily jump up one).  I think Hameed will come back strong but this year was always going to be a tough one after such a quick rise last season but he's probably 2 years away really and the other 2 spots are anyone's guess.

I'd be tempted to take a look at Malan in place of Ballance but he's another who seems better suited to the limited overs stuff but there's no one else that's really jumping out.  Keeping Jennings therefore seems sensible and then we really need to find someone to come in at 5/6.  I honestly have no idea who that could be though.  A few years back it looked like Hain would be ideal to come in and take a spot like that but his game in the longer form seems to have abandoned him

I agree with that Paul and would add that I would put Bairstow at six as well, as I think Stokes is batting one place too high.  6, 7, 8, 9 of Bairstow, Stokes, Ali and Woakes should be fine going forward.  I think the point made above about James Taylor is a good one, as he was just settling into that role at five.  I don't think we have ever really replaced Strauss and Trott at the top of the order though and look very fragile there. 

We seem to be always looking to the future in test cricket and in doing so, we seem to discard players very hastily.  For me, the priority now should be the Ashes in the winter and that is it.  We should be looking at players for the upcoming six month window.  I am biased, but if we are looking for someone to fill that number five slot and bring a bit of stability over the next few months, Ian Bell would be as good as anyone.  One of the female pundits on 5 Live laughingly dismissed the idea (when someone text in to say that Compton should be considered, she laughed saying he was in the past and we shouldn't be looking at players like him and Ian Bell), which I found a bit disrespectful seeing as Bell has got over 20 test hundreds and only really started to struggle when he started being moved around from five.  I agree that there has to be some forward planning, but we have time to do that after the Ashes in preparation for the next one here.

In terms of the team for the Oval, I would bring in Stoneman to open with Cook (another left hander!) and move Jennings to three.  I would have given Ballance another go a bit further down the order, but with him out, we've got the choice of dropping Dawson and maybe playing an extra batsman or keeping Dawson in as well. 

Offline paul_e

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #639 on: July 19, 2017, 12:55:47 AM »
I think Dawson has to go, I get what they were trying to do and I was willing to give him a couple of games but he looks totally out of his depth.

I'm not sure about Stoneman, he's having a decent season but he's never looked good enough for me.

Offline Villan For Life

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #640 on: July 19, 2017, 06:01:34 AM »
I blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order.

Doesn't seem to bother players from other countries

Even the Boycott-esque Test player Hashim Amla players in the IPL

On top of that the best batsman we have is great in all 3 formats.

The problem is that we just don't seem to be able to get players who have the right technique and attitude in the top 5.

Not sure that's true Root and Cook are fine and I have no problem with Bairstow. He played a poor shot yesterday but I think he can play the situation normally.

Sorry, I should have said enough players with ...

I agree those 3 are fine and Ali, Stokes and Woakes are as good a 7, 8 and 9 as any in world cricket and should be played as such, I know some people will say that the first 2 are too good to be that low but there's no point promoting them and bringing in extra bowlers and you wouldn't bring in a dedicated batsman and play him below 7 so it's the best option.
The problem is that we really need to fill the other spots (2, 3 and 5 for me but Bairstow could easily jump up one).  I think Hameed will come back strong but this year was always going to be a tough one after such a quick rise last season but he's probably 2 years away really and the other 2 spots are anyone's guess.

I'd be tempted to take a look at Malan in place of Ballance but he's another who seems better suited to the limited overs stuff but there's no one else that's really jumping out.  Keeping Jennings therefore seems sensible and then we really need to find someone to come in at 5/6.  I honestly have no idea who that could be though.  A few years back it looked like Hain would be ideal to come in and take a spot like that but his game in the longer form seems to have abandoned him

I agree with that Paul and would add that I would put Bairstow at six as well, as I think Stokes is batting one place too high.  6, 7, 8, 9 of Bairstow, Stokes, Ali and Woakes should be fine going forward.  I think the point made above about James Taylor is a good one, as he was just settling into that role at five.  I don't think we have ever really replaced Strauss and Trott at the top of the order though and look very fragile there. 

We seem to be always looking to the future in test cricket and in doing so, we seem to discard players very hastily.  For me, the priority now should be the Ashes in the winter and that is it.  We should be looking at players for the upcoming six month window.  I am biased, but if we are looking for someone to fill that number five slot and bring a bit of stability over the next few months, Ian Bell would be as good as anyone.  One of the female pundits on 5 Live laughingly dismissed the idea (when someone text in to say that Compton should be considered, she laughed saying he was in the past and we shouldn't be looking at players like him and Ian Bell), which I found a bit disrespectful seeing as Bell has got over 20 test hundreds and only really started to struggle when he started being moved around from five.  I agree that there has to be some forward planning, but we have time to do that after the Ashes in preparation for the next one here.

In terms of the team for the Oval, I would bring in Stoneman to open with Cook (another left hander!) and move Jennings to three.  I would have given Ballance another go a bit further down the order, but with him out, we've got the choice of dropping Dawson and maybe playing an extra batsman or keeping Dawson in as well. 

Bell has hardly set the world alight since he was dropped. I thought he'd score shed loads of runs and force himself back into contention but that hasn't happened.

Offline Chris Jameson

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #641 on: July 19, 2017, 07:21:36 AM »
I still blame that stupid hit and run game.

Offline AVH87

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #642 on: July 19, 2017, 01:38:44 PM »
I don't get why Hameed gets mentioned to come back in so much. He averages 19 in First Class cricket in 2017, he also looks to me like he doesn't yet have the physique to really be playing adult cricket. I think he needs a strong summer in the gym as at the moment he just won't have the power and the answers to a rapid Australian bowling attack in the winter. I can understand a Bell recall being ruled out because he hasn't scored the runs this year, but by the same token it's unfair for people to then say Hameed should play.

I'd go for giving Duckett another go, a fine player who has shown he can do it at International level in the shorter formats, and is in form with 2 hundreds in his last two First Class games. Sam Robson should also be under consideration for another shot.

Offline tomd2103

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #643 on: July 19, 2017, 02:16:39 PM »
I don't get why Hameed gets mentioned to come back in so much. He averages 19 in First Class cricket in 2017, he also looks to me like he doesn't yet have the physique to really be playing adult cricket. I think he needs a strong summer in the gym as at the moment he just won't have the power and the answers to a rapid Australian bowling attack in the winter. I can understand a Bell recall being ruled out because he hasn't scored the runs this year, but by the same token it's unfair for people to then say Hameed should play.

I'd go for giving Duckett another go, a fine player who has shown he can do it at International level in the shorter formats, and is in form with 2 hundreds in his last two First Class games. Sam Robson should also be under consideration for another shot.

Some good points there and Robson and Duckett having another go are two decent suggestions.  If he does come back, I would prefer to see Duckett further down the order, possibly at six or seven. 

Offline tomd2103

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Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
« Reply #644 on: July 19, 2017, 02:19:29 PM »
I blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order.

Doesn't seem to bother players from other countries

Even the Boycott-esque Test player Hashim Amla players in the IPL

On top of that the best batsman we have is great in all 3 formats.

The problem is that we just don't seem to be able to get players who have the right technique and attitude in the top 5.

Not sure that's true Root and Cook are fine and I have no problem with Bairstow. He played a poor shot yesterday but I think he can play the situation normally.

Sorry, I should have said enough players with ...

I agree those 3 are fine and Ali, Stokes and Woakes are as good a 7, 8 and 9 as any in world cricket and should be played as such, I know some people will say that the first 2 are too good to be that low but there's no point promoting them and bringing in extra bowlers and you wouldn't bring in a dedicated batsman and play him below 7 so it's the best option.
The problem is that we really need to fill the other spots (2, 3 and 5 for me but Bairstow could easily jump up one).  I think Hameed will come back strong but this year was always going to be a tough one after such a quick rise last season but he's probably 2 years away really and the other 2 spots are anyone's guess.

I'd be tempted to take a look at Malan in place of Ballance but he's another who seems better suited to the limited overs stuff but there's no one else that's really jumping out.  Keeping Jennings therefore seems sensible and then we really need to find someone to come in at 5/6.  I honestly have no idea who that could be though.  A few years back it looked like Hain would be ideal to come in and take a spot like that but his game in the longer form seems to have abandoned him

I agree with that Paul and would add that I would put Bairstow at six as well, as I think Stokes is batting one place too high.  6, 7, 8, 9 of Bairstow, Stokes, Ali and Woakes should be fine going forward.  I think the point made above about James Taylor is a good one, as he was just settling into that role at five.  I don't think we have ever really replaced Strauss and Trott at the top of the order though and look very fragile there. 

We seem to be always looking to the future in test cricket and in doing so, we seem to discard players very hastily.  For me, the priority now should be the Ashes in the winter and that is it.  We should be looking at players for the upcoming six month window.  I am biased, but if we are looking for someone to fill that number five slot and bring a bit of stability over the next few months, Ian Bell would be as good as anyone.  One of the female pundits on 5 Live laughingly dismissed the idea (when someone text in to say that Compton should be considered, she laughed saying he was in the past and we shouldn't be looking at players like him and Ian Bell), which I found a bit disrespectful seeing as Bell has got over 20 test hundreds and only really started to struggle when he started being moved around from five.  I agree that there has to be some forward planning, but we have time to do that after the Ashes in preparation for the next one here.

In terms of the team for the Oval, I would bring in Stoneman to open with Cook (another left hander!) and move Jennings to three.  I would have given Ballance another go a bit further down the order, but with him out, we've got the choice of dropping Dawson and maybe playing an extra batsman or keeping Dawson in as well. 

Bell has hardly set the world alight since he was dropped. I thought he'd score shed loads of runs and force himself back into contention but that hasn't happened.

True, but I did say I was a bit biased!!  I still think if they were to say to him, you've got the West Indies series and one last crack at the Aussies batting at five, he'd be an option.