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Author Topic: Longer Standing Villa fans than me Question  (Read 7730 times)

Offline wittonwarrior

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Longer Standing Villa fans than me Question
« on: September 25, 2016, 10:35:15 PM »
I go back with the Villa to 1972 - during that time I have seen up to now mostly more highs  than lows up to  last season, okay I only know all  to well the relegation back in the 80's but to me we were in a  far superior state of health  even then.

My question is prior to Vic Crowe how poor were the Villa in the 60's/early 70's?

Offline SirSteveUK

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Re: Longer Standing Villa fans than me Question
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2016, 11:37:52 PM »
Well for a start, here are the league positions over the 20 years from 1960-perhaps they speak to the standard of our football - never higher than 15th in a 22-team League for 9 years running - followed by a catastrophic spell in the 2nd Div



The club was in terminal decline from the highlight of promotion at the first attempt in 1960 - under managers ranging from Joe Mercer (whose pedigree was impeccable) to Dick Knight & Tommy Cumming (less impeccable - Knight later ran a TV/Radio shop on the Witton Road and Tommy C went back to Burnley to run a pub). The decline was slowed, halted and eventually reversed by the Percy Matthews/Doug Ellis takeover in 1968, though even they couldn't stay out of the 3rd  under Tommy Docherty . The club would have gone out of business without Doug - I remain convinced of that - the pre-Ellis board were appallingly behind the times - and couldn't handle the debt that Knight had incurred by some apparently crap signings - which is why the club sold their Trinity Road training ground.

I was only an occasional supporter being at school - so I can only guess at what the football was like - but the "new broom" started in the old Div 3 - under the hand of Vic Crowe and I remember then really starting to support them home and away - with a team that was the best since 1960 - even then it was the feeling that the sleeping giant was awakening -  it was brilliant a run of improvement that continued to 1982.

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Longer Standing Villa fans than me Question
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2016, 11:39:28 PM »
Well for a start, here are the league positions over the 20 years from 1960-perhaps they speak to the standard of our football - never higher than 15th in a 22-team League for 9 years running - followed by a catastrophic spell in the 2nd Div



The club was in terminal decline from the highlight of promotion at the first attempt in 1960 - under managers ranging from Joe Mercer (whose pedigree was impeccable) to Dick Knight & Tommy Cumming (less impeccable - Knight later ran a TV/Radio shop on the Witton Road and Tommy C went back to Burnley to run a pub). The decline was slowed, halted and eventually reversed by the Percy Matthews/Doug Ellis takeover in 1968, though even they couldn't stay out of the 3rd  under Tommy Docherty . The club would have gone out of business without Doug - I remain convinced of that - the pre-Ellis board were appallingly behind the times - and couldn't handle the debt that Knight had incurred by some apparently crap signings - which is why the club sold their Trinity Road training ground.

I was only an occasional supporter being at school - so I can only guess at what the football was like - but the "new broom" started in the old Div 3 - under the hand of Vic Crowe and I remember then really starting to support them home and away - with a team that was the best since 1960 - even then it was the feeling that the sleeping giant was awakening -  it was brilliant a run of improvement that continued to 1982.

Do you mean Dick Taylor?

Offline ROBBO

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Re: Longer Standing Villa fans than me Question
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2016, 12:29:03 AM »
I started going to home matches around 1963-4 and apart from a couple of highlights it's been frustrating supporting a team that with it's support base should be at the top of the league consistently. I came to Oz before the league or European wins so missed out on seeing it happen.
We are a big club who should be massive that's why so many managers are attracted to us they can all see the potential and the rewards if they succeed, I often think there must be a curse on the place.

Offline DeKuip

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Re: Longer Standing Villa fans than me Question
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2016, 12:59:08 AM »
Dick Knight was on TV, not selling them!

Although I went s few times before then I started going regularly with my dad in 68.
From around then and right through the 70s the support was incredible not just in numbers but also because it always felt as though everyone was right behind the club.

If I could relive my life again I couldn't find a better time to get hooked.

Offline cdbearsfan

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Re: Longer Standing Villa fans than me Question
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2016, 01:26:42 AM »
I wonder how different out history might have been if the weather didn't turn to shit in 1962-63.

After our game on the 15th December we were fifth. We only played a couple of games between then and March and ended up fifteenth, losing the League Cup Final to Small Heath to make things worse.

After that, we didn't have a single season for the rest of the decade that wasn't a grim struggle against relegation, or an actual relegation.

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Longer Standing Villa fans than me Question
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2016, 01:29:33 AM »
I wonder how different out history might have been if the weather didn't turn to shit in...


Beware. Down that road lies Stripeyness.

Offline trevor fisher

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Re: Longer Standing Villa fans than me Question
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2016, 02:32:22 AM »
All that anyone needs to know about the Villa in the 1960s is that we drove Joe Mercer to a nervous breakdown. He then went to Man City and with Malcolm Allison won them the league in 1968 - overshadowed by Man U winning the European cup - and went on to manage England. Even Joe could not manage villa, the club was bankrupt in every way

A friend recalls coming to Villa Park for a cup game with Oxford, looking forward to the great ground he had heard so much about, and being shocked to see broken window panes, Villa could not even fix the windows,

And we sold the training ground, the Hercules ground so the team had to borrow works pitches to train on. Deadly bought Bodymoor and stopped that nonsense.

It was awful in the 1960s. The weekend before Docherty arrived we got 12,500 people in a 62,500 capacity ground and I can remember hearing players shouting to each other - and there was an echo. A nightmare in every way

Offline oldtimernow

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Re: Longer Standing Villa fans than me Question
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2016, 03:34:57 AM »
All that anyone needs to know about the Villa in the 1960s is that we drove Joe Mercer to a nervous breakdown. He then went to Man City and with Malcolm Allison won them the league in 1968 - overshadowed by Man U winning the European cup - and went on to manage England. Even Joe could not manage villa, the club was bankrupt in every way

A friend recalls coming to Villa Park for a cup game with Oxford, looking forward to the great ground he had heard so much about, and being shocked to see broken window panes, Villa could not even fix the windows,

And we sold the training ground, the Hercules ground so the team had to borrow works pitches to train on. Deadly bought Bodymoor and stopped that nonsense.

It was awful in the 1960s. The weekend before Docherty arrived we got 12,500 people in a 62,500 capacity ground and I can remember hearing players shouting to each other - and there was an echo. A nightmare in every way

It was cold on the Witton End too, not enough fans to huddle together!

Offline Percy McCarthy

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Re: Longer Standing Villa fans than me Question
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2016, 05:11:44 AM »
Well for a start, here are the league positions over the 20 years from 1960-perhaps they speak to the standard of our football - never higher than 15th in a 22-team League for 9 years running - followed by a catastrophic spell in the 2nd Div



The club was in terminal decline from the highlight of promotion at the first attempt in 1960 - under managers ranging from Joe Mercer (whose pedigree was impeccable) to Dick Knight & Tommy Cumming (less impeccable - Knight later ran a TV/Radio shop on the Witton Road and Tommy C went back to Burnley to run a pub). The decline was slowed, halted and eventually reversed by the Percy Matthews/Doug Ellis takeover in 1968, though even they couldn't stay out of the 3rd  under Tommy Docherty . The club would have gone out of business without Doug - I remain convinced of that - the pre-Ellis board were appallingly behind the times - and couldn't handle the debt that Knight had incurred by some apparently crap signings - which is why the club sold their Trinity Road training ground.

I was only an occasional supporter being at school - so I can only guess at what the football was like - but the "new broom" started in the old Div 3 - under the hand of Vic Crowe and I remember then really starting to support them home and away - with a team that was the best since 1960 - even then it was the feeling that the sleeping giant was awakening -  it was brilliant a run of improvement that continued to 1982.

Do you mean Dick Taylor?

And Pat Matthews.

Offline Havencheese

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Re: Longer Standing Villa fans than me Question
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2016, 05:18:43 AM »
This is a cracking thread, despite the bleakness. I had no idea how badly the club was on its arse in the early 60's and never heard as such before. Had no idea HDE was responsible for the Bodymore Heath purchase either. I've only been a fan from abroad since the mid 80's and that post FA Cup triumph of '57 to the Div 3 period, I've known and heard little about. I read Children of the Revolution yonks ago but the short period just prior to very late 60's is a black hole.

It's almost criminal to think how the club has been run at times last century despite it's potential. Correlate that with a club of similar history and stature in Everton (okay, no European Cup) and without looking at the records, their successes I'd imagine would be more chronologically consistent than Villa's. Prior to WWI with it's success and support, you'd have to consider Villa one of the biggest sporting clubs in the world at the time, if not the biggest. By comparison the next 50 odd years were a mixed bag to say the least.

Credit to those who saw the 60's through and are still following.

Offline ROBBO

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Re: Longer Standing Villa fans than me Question
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2016, 06:16:30 AM »
Them days there was no choice, I would have got kicked out of the family if I had followed the trend of today and cherry picked one of the top three. It was pretty basic in the Witton end with a quick exit down the back of the bank at the end.
Even though there was little success we lived for years off the cup final win and Johny Dixon and Peter Mac will always be heroes for me. Villa Park has always been a top ground with top supporters but with Godawful management, lets hope Tone is the real deal.

Offline Allan C

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Re: Longer Standing Villa fans than me Question
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2016, 08:57:02 AM »
My first season was 70/71. My dad used to go down the Witton end on the mud at the back and we used to run down the hill at the end. I loved watching Villa back then and being in the third division didn't matter. Players like Andy Lockhead Chico Hamilton and Pat McMahon were gods to me. I thought we were brilliant. Switched to the Holte end in 74. Possibly my favourite player of all time Keith Lenard and promotion back to Div 1 are high lights. Great bosses too. Vic Crowe and Ron Saunders. Fantastic days to be a young Villa fan

Online DB

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Re: Longer Standing Villa fans than me Question
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2016, 09:02:02 AM »
Interesting read this. Anyone recommened a decent book that covers all this period?

Offline curlytailavfc

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Re: Longer Standing Villa fans than me Question
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2016, 09:23:17 AM »
I started going to villa in 1967 and been trying to go every season since I missed a few matches when my twins were born as I had no time as I needed to work saturdays to keep money coming in. Seen good times and bad times over the years.

 


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