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Author Topic: Dalian Atkinson  (Read 47716 times)

Offline mike

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  • Posts: 1705
Re: Dalian Atkinson
« Reply #600 on: November 13, 2019, 10:04:16 PM »
Guys, this is about Dalian, not our views on the police. My input was on the basis that 'fuck the police' is as reductive as 'fuck taxi drivers', 'fuck Villa fans', 'fuck blonde people' or indeed 'fuck [insert any big, varied group of human beings]'. That way lies 'fuck black people with mental health problems'. None of us knew him, none of us know Jack Grealish or John McGinn. They're great footballers with a loyalty to the club and the fans and for that reason we will support and cherish their memories in years to come. We have had troubled heroes like McGrath and Merson and fantastic role models like Southgate and Taylor. So talk about Dalian, talk about the incident, talk about these two officers, but let's not make this thread a cause of division and dispute.

Offline Toronto Villa

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Re: Dalian Atkinson
« Reply #601 on: November 14, 2019, 12:03:24 AM »
My only comment would be that truly believe the vast majority of police officers who have a tremendously difficult job to do are upstanding and genuinely good people. What I don't like is when bad cops are rarely called out by politicians not looking to lose the support of the union, or the police union not policing themselves adequately and simpling getting rid of the bad apples. They stand together so the perception quickly gets created that they are all bad, and mainly because bad stuff gets highlited far more readily than the many good things they do. You see it in the US now for example where despite numerous terrible incidents against innocent black men the majority of charged officers walk free and naturally keep their job. Even when the innocent party dies and evidence is almost overwhelmingly against the officer. It creates such a toxic atmosphere in the communities they serve and an inherent lack of trust. Until they solve this from within it won't ever go away.

I hope in this case if indeed the officer wilfully caused the death of Dalian he is treated like a civilian and punished to the fullest extent of the law.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Dalian Atkinson
« Reply #602 on: November 14, 2019, 12:10:54 AM »
At this point that's what is happening, we'll have to wait and see what happens from here but this currently being handled exactly as it should be.

Offline dr.chekov

  • Member
  • Posts: 51
Re: Dalian Atkinson
« Reply #603 on: November 14, 2019, 02:40:19 PM »
There are many times when it isn’t reductive to say ‘fuck… this group or that.’ To say fuck racists, fuck ableists, fuck homophobes and misogynists and fascists and all the rest is to be in solidarity with those groups who are attacked for simply being who they are.

And people might say fuck the police for much the same reason they say fuck racists. The police have a record of continuously discriminating against black people. Look at Black Lives Matter, as I mentioned previously, or the way in which the police bungled (which is being kind) the Stephen Lawrence murder investigation and then thought the best way to make up for it was to spy on Stephen Lawrence’s parents!

And of course, it isn’t just ethnic minorities, in my lifetime alone the mentally ill (Stefan Kiszko) Irish people (Birmingham Six, the Guilford Four), striking miners (Orgreave), football fans (Hillsborough), protest groups (such as uncover police infiltrating groups, spying on them and even starting families with women in the group) have been falsely imprisoned, beat up, abused and killed because of the police.
 
It doesn’t seem to be a problem of whether an individual officer is good or bad, it seems like a systematic problem.
I have no idea what the answer is. I have used the police before and as kieron rightly said, I would use them again if I was in trouble. But given their record I can’t be too critical of Bob for being so angry as to say fuck them.

Offline dcdavecollett

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  • Posts: 1018
Re: Dalian Atkinson
« Reply #604 on: November 17, 2019, 10:50:45 PM »
And of course, there's still no sign of a public inquiry into what happened at Orgreave.