First Press-ing

[Tony Erdington]

Good stuff Dave, and I agree about Jack's goal - it almost felt like a piss-off to the whole notion of Villa in the second tier.

In fact, what I liked most about it was the arrogance. It took him so long before he eventually nudged it in, like he could barely condescend to do so. We should be gracious to the so-called lesser teams (I mean, let's face it, how many have we lost to recently?), but we could use a bit of swagger and superiority about us this season. Players will be intimidated by VP - we need to ram home that advantage.

That's how I feel as well. You know Newcastle are going to piss people off with their attitude so let's make friends and win graciously.

your in trouble Dave, I'm liking what your saying. your First press-ing was a very good read as well. Sorry

UTV

[dave.woodhall]

There's a lot to be said for trying to be the anti-Newcastle in all sorts of ways (though not in attendance, to be fair - 52,000 in the second tier is preposterous).

One team city we have small heath tesco-bags and dingles on our doorstep

I'm sorry flybo, this isn't a dig at you as such but it doesn't half wind me up when people try to make excuses to explain why Newcastle get more fans than us.

They might be a one club city but that city has a population of less than 300k.  Birmingham has a population of over 1.1m.  Despite what Noses might say, the other 800k people aren't all Blues fans.

The reality of it is that if you walk around Newcastle football is virtually a religion up there.  Whereas with us, even when it looked like we were going to crack the top 4 under MON we still rarely sold out VP (I think our best effort was when we sold out 4 times in one season).

My own personal view is that the cultural diversity of Birmingham means there are more people for whom football isn't that important, plus there is a more diverse entertainment offering, but credit where it's due, there aren't many clubs in the land who could pull in over 50k for a 2nd division match, no matter how many clubs there were in the city.

Newcastle have virtually no competition within a hundred miles.

Sunderland ?

Exactly!  There's a club 12 miles away from them who've had a higher average attendance than us for 13 of the last 17 seasons (for 3 of the other 4 they were in the division below).  It's a complete fallacy.

It's not a fallacy at all. One club, in a city where nobody from Newcastle would visit if they were paid, against the sort of competition we have.

[Ad@m]

They get 1 in every 6 people in the city turning up to their match. We get less than 1 in 30. And you're seriously laying the blame for that at the Blues and Baggies?! Two clubs who can't get 50,000 turning up between them!

You're kidding yourself.

[dave.woodhall]

They get 1 in every 6 people in the city turning up to their match. We get less than 1 in 30. And you're seriously laying the blame for that at the Blues and Baggies?! Two clubs who can't get 50,000 turning up between them!

You're kidding yourself.

In that case excuse me for not having the benefit of your greater intelligence. Then read your first sentence again.

Newcastle do not get 1 in 6 people in their city watching them - they get support from the whole north of England, and from big chunks of Scotland as well. On the other hand, we don't just have two clubs chipping away at our potential support - look at a radius of eighty miles from Birmingham, and the same distance from Newcastle. Look at the clubs in the two divisions inside those areas. Then tell me I'm kidding myself.

[danno]

Possibly a tenuous point but if I was a glory hunter I'd find travelling to Anfield Stamford bridge the Etihad etc
far easier to do from Birmingham than from Newcastle.

[adrenachrome]

It is true that their far flung fans are very committed, in my experience. I lived in Brighton for 30 years and even though there were far more Villa and Liverpool fans living there, the Geordies were much more committed to returning to SJP despite the distance. There is definitely a cultural element that works in their favour. I used  to tell them that we had Simon Rattle and the CBSO, not to mention the ballet, but they would resort to Roger Melly Viz type retorts, the slags.

[PeterWithe]

Given their general shiteness over the last century, I'd say Newcastle's support is pretty exceptional. When I used to go on lads holidays abroad it was always amusing how they would live in their replica shirts for two weeks, the divs.

[Matt Collins]

Newcastle is a very small city by comparison to Birmingham. As I said earlier, geographically they have fewer local clubs to contend with but the population density is so much lower

On that basis, Southampton - again with few local rivals and a massively higher population density in the region - should be getting absolute mega crowds, while Spurs should be barely able to get 30, 000 with so many (including more glamorous) clubs nearby.  I think there's about 20k on the Spurs waiting list

[danno]

Newcastle is a very small city by comparison to Birmingham. As I said earlier, geographically they have fewer local clubs to contend with but the population density is so much lower

On that basis, Southampton - again with few local rivals and a massively higher population density in the region - should be getting absolute mega crowds, while Spurs should be barely able to get 30, 000 with so many (including more glamorous) clubs nearby.  I think there's about 20k on the Spurs waiting list

They're all in Chelmsford and Southend, my Gran lives in Chelmsford and it is chocka with Spurs fans.
They even have a club shop on the high street lol

[Ad@m]

They get 1 in every 6 people in the city turning up to their match. We get less than 1 in 30. And you're seriously laying the blame for that at the Blues and Baggies?! Two clubs who can't get 50,000 turning up between them!

You're kidding yourself.

In that case excuse me for not having the benefit of your greater intelligence. Then read your first sentence again.

Newcastle do not get 1 in 6 people in their city watching them - they get support from the whole north of England, and from big chunks of Scotland as well. On the other hand, we don't just have two clubs chipping away at our potential support - look at a radius of eighty miles from Birmingham, and the same distance from Newcastle. Look at the clubs in the two divisions inside those areas. Then tell me I'm kidding myself.

So if Newcastle have got the whole north of England and big chunks of Scotland to themselves how do Sunderland, Celtic and Rangers all average more than us?

You're on your own here Dave.  Keep kidding yourself.

[Richard E]

Can we not just go back to not giving a toss about Newcastle again? I know they have developed a fixation with us but we don't have to reciprocate.

These mega-crowds have done them the world of good - they have won zilch since television went colour and have just been relegated, again, having survived by the skin of their teeth the previous season.

[dave.woodhall]

They get 1 in every 6 people in the city turning up to their match. We get less than 1 in 30. And you're seriously laying the blame for that at the Blues and Baggies?! Two clubs who can't get 50,000 turning up between them!

You're kidding yourself.

In that case excuse me for not having the benefit of your greater intelligence. Then read your first sentence again.

Newcastle do not get 1 in 6 people in their city watching them - they get support from the whole north of England, and from big chunks of Scotland as well. On the other hand, we don't just have two clubs chipping away at our potential support - look at a radius of eighty miles from Birmingham, and the same distance from Newcastle. Look at the clubs in the two divisions inside those areas. Then tell me I'm kidding myself.

So if Newcastle have got the whole north of England and big chunks of Scotland to themselves how do Sunderland, Celtic and Rangers all average more than us?

You're on your own here Dave.  Keep kidding yourself.

Sunderland have been (in)famous for the amount of discounted tickets they give away ever since they moved grounds. Celtic and Rangers have worldwide support. And I'm on my own? It's odd, then, how many people say the same as me.

[oldhill_avfc]

Catchment areas and surrounding competition may play a role in elevating Newcastle's attendances to a degree, but surely you can't argue with the fact that the football team has a far closer association with the city than Villa does with Birmingham.

Newcastle are a totem for the city and virtually all of its inhabitants - all that Toon Army stuff plays a massive part in the psyche up there.   

The homogeneity of the culture helps this as well - a large proportion of the population identify themselves as white, working class, ex-mining, sports (mainly football) supporters.

It's a large part of that culture to back Newcastle and turn for matches at a level that simply isn't the case down here.

[amfy]

Being a one club town isn't just about the pure population numbers you draw on though. It creates a mentality where there is no choice & everyone supports Newcastle whether they are actually into football or not, so it's kind of 'in the water' & filters in from all angles no matter what.
Once you have a choice of Villa or Blues or Albion, you also have a choice of 'take it or leave it'. That's the difference being a one club town makes, not having a bigger catchment.

[andyaston]

If you look at Newcastle's average crowds say from 1970-1990 they would be worse than ours, we could always get some massive crowds given any hope.

Traditionally Villa before 1990 had larger crowds than the Geordies, however, from the 1990 World Cup onwards with a mixture of Keegan Mania and the new Premiership/new fan era Newcastle have found some new fans. We would always average around 25,000 in the period running up to the early 90s before football began to become fashionable, the Geordies and 20-25,000. But in recent years they have been averaging about 50,000 and us about 35,000.

So the easy to attend new footballing era (Free mostly from so called football hooligans, post Gazza crying at Italia 90) has brought Villa around 10,000 extra fans. But with Newcastle this has increased by almost 30,000. I can only sum up that they have had a lot of bandwaggon jumpers fused with a strange blind faith but, ultimately their traditional fan base is no better than ours.