Safe Standing

[AV82EC]

Momentum is building,  alsorts of problems at West ham,  as those who have stood for years at Upton Park are now in areas where theres football tourists, premiership types,  and genuine supporters who want to sit. Segregation of standing supporters and sitting supporters is the only answer,  in safe and modern rail seat model. Others wise punch ups,  kids cryin,  old people having to stand wil continue.

Are you going to organise it?

[spinksy the bfg]

Momentum is building,  alsorts of problems at West ham,  as those who have stood for years at Upton Park are now in areas where theres football tourists, premiership types,  and genuine supporters who want to sit. Segregation of standing supporters and sitting supporters is the only answer,  in safe and modern rail seat model. Others wise punch ups,  kids cryin,  old people having to stand wil continue.

Are you going to organise it?

most clubs and ours being the most prominent done it years ago naturally.  whufc have created an online standing sitting swap shop,  cos the gold,  sullervan and the tart haven't got a clue on how to run a football clubs

[Des Little]

Porno Dwarf, Tumnus and Our Karren won't give two fcuks about safe or otherwise standing, singing sections or even the furore over their fans behaviour. They've pulled off the deal of the century and will sail off into the sunset with their ill gotten gains as soon as they get the chance.

[Witton Warrior]

Safe standing had a mention just before the Old Firm game but it obviously caused no problems as not a peep about it since - No News is No News I suppose

[Tugby Villain]

Momentum is building,  alsorts of problems at West ham,  as those who have stood for years at Upton Park are now in areas where theres football tourists, premiership types,  and genuine supporters who want to sit. Segregation of standing supporters and sitting supporters is the only answer,  in safe and modern rail seat model. Others wise punch ups,  kids cryin,  old people having to stand wil continue.

Couldn't have said it better myself

[spinksy the bfg]

Good article on our club's views on safe standing In the evening mail. very encouraging.

[VillaLoyal]

Its works in Germany and the atmosphere is better across the board isn't it? Do we want our atmosphere to end up like that at Arsenals new ground? I think they have big furry leather seats for them all to keep their arses warm eh

Everyone stands at all of our away games and at home games in the Lower North Stand and elsewhere for the whole game. A sizeable minority want to stand and most want to sit. I am sure we can put in a common sense arrangement and now the Celts have implemented it the precedent has been set. The Dr should implement this.

I was standing at Fulham watching our under 23`s the other week and they had a safe standing area. The atmosphere was s**t but that was only because I was the only c**t in the stand..

[Small Rodent]

It's rather pathetic that grown men will start to fight each other over standing or sitting, and then use it as an excuse for a campaign. If anything this argument would make authorities enforce sitting even more.

[spinksy the bfg]

It's rather pathetic that grown men will start to fight each other over standing or sitting, and then use it as an excuse for a campaign. If anything this argument would make authorities enforce sitting even more.

if you mean the weekly fighting that takes places at whu's new stadium it only happens as sitting and standing supporter's are not segregated unlike  they were at Upton Park.

[amfy]

There does seem to be a growing national momentum for it at present. Now that the Hillsborough Inquest is completed, and it is clear that crowd management rather than standing or fan behaviour was the cause of the disaster, I think it will be easier to move this on without it being disrespectful.

In the long run, whole new stands will be needed to fully implement safe standing. Recent stands can only be converted to one standing space per seat because the number of exits, toilets, and the size of the concourses would need to be increased for any added capacity. (Even the lower north which was an original terrace would probably not meet modern day H&S for any extra capacity). This would be OK as a starting point, but new stands should now be being built with full potential for conversion. It is only added capacity, being regularly sold, that can bring prices down.

In the meantime - simple things like selling away tickets from front to back for those who prefer to sit, and from back to front for those who prefer to stand, should be allowed to be explicit, and made clear on purchase where it isn't practical (such as at Liverpool & Chelsea where the upper tier overhang means that those at the back cannot see when standing. Home clubs should also be allowed to explicitly state to their own supporters where in the ground people are 'more likely' to stand for extended periods, and where standing is not tolerated.

I think the regulations need to be relaxed in this way for a gradual acclimatisation and 'testing' of how stewards and police manage standing crowds and to what extent it changes the dynamic. Once the battle to get people to sit is taken out of the equation, what are the crowd management issues? Are there new ones we hadn't thought of? Do old ones start to return? A slightly informal approach like this will either gradually convert those with doubts, or will show that a return to large scale standing isn't practical after all. You can only try and see what happens.

[spinksy the bfg]

There does seem to be a growing national momentum for it at present. Now that the Hillsborough Inquest is completed, and it is clear that crowd management rather than standing or fan behaviour was the cause of the disaster, I think it will be easier to move this on without it being disrespectful.

In the long run, whole new stands will be needed to fully implement safe standing. Recent stands can only be converted to one standing space per seat because the number of exits, toilets, and the size of the concourses would need to be increased for any added capacity. (Even the lower north which was an original terrace would probably not meet modern day H&S for any extra capacity). This would be OK as a starting point, but new stands should now be being built with full potential for conversion. It is only added capacity, being regularly sold, that can bring prices down.

In the meantime - simple things like selling away tickets from front to back for those who prefer to sit, and from back to front for those who prefer to stand, should be allowed to be explicit, and made clear on purchase where it isn't practical (such as at Liverpool & Chelsea where the upper tier overhang means that those at the back cannot see when standing. Home clubs should also be allowed to explicitly state to their own supporters where in the ground people are 'more likely' to stand for extended periods, and where standing is not tolerated.

I think the regulations need to be relaxed in this way for a gradual acclimatisation and 'testing' of how stewards and police manage standing crowds and to what extent it changes the dynamic. Once the battle to get people to sit is taken out of the equation, what are the crowd management issues? Are there new ones we hadn't thought of? Do old ones start to return? A slightly informal approach like this will either gradually convert those with doubts, or will show that a return to large scale standing isn't practical after all. You can only try and see what happens.

The one for one models is certainly achievable in the lower Holte and with many other stadiums. Stadiums which are being built like at spurs they can build the German model around the new developments . Although when Celtic were building their German model it was engineered in to an existing lower tier stand. I would take the one for one model either in the holte or lower Witton if that's all  can be offered. 

[kippaxvilla2]

This works very well at Celtic.

[amfy]

There does seem to be a growing national momentum for it at present. Now that the Hillsborough Inquest is completed, and it is clear that crowd management rather than standing or fan behaviour was the cause of the disaster, I think it will be easier to move this on without it being disrespectful.

In the long run, whole new stands will be needed to fully implement safe standing. Recent stands can only be converted to one standing space per seat because the number of exits, toilets, and the size of the concourses would need to be increased for any added capacity. (Even the lower north which was an original terrace would probably not meet modern day H&S for any extra capacity). This would be OK as a starting point, but new stands should now be being built with full potential for conversion. It is only added capacity, being regularly sold, that can bring prices down.

In the meantime - simple things like selling away tickets from front to back for those who prefer to sit, and from back to front for those who prefer to stand, should be allowed to be explicit, and made clear on purchase where it isn't practical (such as at Liverpool & Chelsea where the upper tier overhang means that those at the back cannot see when standing. Home clubs should also be allowed to explicitly state to their own supporters where in the ground people are 'more likely' to stand for extended periods, and where standing is not tolerated.

I think the regulations need to be relaxed in this way for a gradual acclimatisation and 'testing' of how stewards and police manage standing crowds and to what extent it changes the dynamic. Once the battle to get people to sit is taken out of the equation, what are the crowd management issues? Are there new ones we hadn't thought of? Do old ones start to return? A slightly informal approach like this will either gradually convert those with doubts, or will show that a return to large scale standing isn't practical after all. You can only try and see what happens.

The one for one models is certainly achievable in the lower Holte and with many other stadiums. Stadiums which are being built like at spurs they can build the German model around the new developments . Although when Celtic were building their German model it was engineered in to an existing lower tier stand. I would take the one for one model either in the holte or lower Witton if that's all  can be offered. 

Me too and no doubt most people, it's just that I do see comments about it being cheaper, and it isn't going to be anytime soon! I think one for one is best to prove safety in the early stages anyway.

[Hopadop]

There does seem to be a growing national momentum for it at present. Now that the Hillsborough Inquest is completed, and it is clear that crowd management rather than standing or fan behaviour was the cause of the disaster, I think it will be easier to move this on without it being disrespectful.

In the long run, whole new stands will be needed to fully implement safe standing. Recent stands can only be converted to one standing space per seat because the number of exits, toilets, and the size of the concourses would need to be increased for any added capacity. (Even the lower north which was an original terrace would probably not meet modern day H&S for any extra capacity). This would be OK as a starting point, but new stands should now be being built with full potential for conversion. It is only added capacity, being regularly sold, that can bring prices down.

In the meantime - simple things like selling away tickets from front to back for those who prefer to sit, and from back to front for those who prefer to stand, should be allowed to be explicit, and made clear on purchase where it isn't practical (such as at Liverpool & Chelsea where the upper tier overhang means that those at the back cannot see when standing. Home clubs should also be allowed to explicitly state to their own supporters where in the ground people are 'more likely' to stand for extended periods, and where standing is not tolerated.

I think the regulations need to be relaxed in this way for a gradual acclimatisation and 'testing' of how stewards and police manage standing crowds and to what extent it changes the dynamic. Once the battle to get people to sit is taken out of the equation, what are the crowd management issues? Are there new ones we hadn't thought of? Do old ones start to return? A slightly informal approach like this will either gradually convert those with doubts, or will show that a return to large scale standing isn't practical after all. You can only try and see what happens.

The one for one models is certainly achievable in the lower Holte and with many other stadiums. Stadiums which are being built like at spurs they can build the German model around the new developments . Although when Celtic were building their German model it was engineered in to an existing lower tier stand. I would take the one for one model either in the holte or lower Witton if that's all  can be offered. 

Me too and no doubt most people, it's just that I do see comments about it being cheaper, and it isn't going to be anytime soon! I think one for one is best to prove safety in the early stages anyway.

That's very interesting both.

Whatever the merits, I just cannot see the authorities doing anything to upset the Hillsborough families any time soon. It will need their acquiescence if not their blessing.

[spinksy the bfg]

There does seem to be a growing national momentum for it at present. Now that the Hillsborough Inquest is completed, and it is clear that crowd management rather than standing or fan behaviour was the cause of the disaster, I think it will be easier to move this on without it being disrespectful.

In the long run, whole new stands will be needed to fully implement safe standing. Recent stands can only be converted to one standing space per seat because the number of exits, toilets, and the size of the concourses would need to be increased for any added capacity. (Even the lower north which was an original terrace would probably not meet modern day H&S for any extra capacity). This would be OK as a starting point, but new stands should now be being built with full potential for conversion. It is only added capacity, being regularly sold, that can bring prices down.

In the meantime - simple things like selling away tickets from front to back for those who prefer to sit, and from back to front for those who prefer to stand, should be allowed to be explicit, and made clear on purchase where it isn't practical (such as at Liverpool & Chelsea where the upper tier overhang means that those at the back cannot see when standing. Home clubs should also be allowed to explicitly state to their own supporters where in the ground people are 'more likely' to stand for extended periods, and where standing is not tolerated.

I think the regulations need to be relaxed in this way for a gradual acclimatisation and 'testing' of how stewards and police manage standing crowds and to what extent it changes the dynamic. Once the battle to get people to sit is taken out of the equation, what are the crowd management issues? Are there new ones we hadn't thought of? Do old ones start to return? A slightly informal approach like this will either gradually convert those with doubts, or will show that a return to large scale standing isn't practical after all. You can only try and see what happens.

The one for one models is certainly achievable in the lower Holte and with many other stadiums. Stadiums which are being built like at spurs they can build the German model around the new developments . Although when Celtic were building their German model it was engineered in to an existing lower tier stand. I would take the one for one model either in the holte or lower Witton if that's all  can be offered. 

Me too and no doubt most people, it's just that I do see comments about it being cheaper, and it isn't going to be anytime soon! I think one for one is best to prove safety in the early stages anyway.

I would only be Be happy with the one for one model If there was a rail for the stander,  not only to lean on but to create a gap infront of the person standing . Ajax are the only ones I have seen with the a rail with one for standing.At least a rail infront of the one for one would give you a very close feel of safe standing and terrace experince in a safe environment.