Ray Wilkins on Talk Sport

[robbo1874]

Obviously, a few days is a long time in Sherwoodland

[Villa in Denmark]

Did Tim choose players or did Reilly? .Did Butch coach or eat donuts in the canteen?

These are questions we will never know the answers to and frankly given the chaos revealed at our club in the past few days ut probably doesn't matter.

I thought that the generally accepted sequence was, just like at pretty much all clubs:

1. Sherwood says something along the lines of "I need a left back, a centre midfield, a centre forward and someone who can play wide forward."
2. Riley has a look in his box of tricks and turns up a few players that fit the bill Sherwood has specified.
3. Sherwood picks the ones he wants based on scouting reports, footage, stats database profile. At that point in time he wouldn't be able to watch them live unless it was started well in advance of season end.

[The Edge]

It's common knowledge that the "recruitment staff" (paddy reilly)was far too influencial in the summer. It's been discussed at length on here. Gabby seems to have retired on full pay an unless the heigherarchy do something about it he is pretty much uncontrollable. It's all water under the bridge now. We need the current situation dealing with pronto. Sky sports reporting a 100M takeover being imminent so for me it's time to move on and reclaim our Aston Villa.

[rob_bridge]

think this all a bit  harsh on Wilkins and Sherwood. 

Sherwood got us out of a hole last season and had his hands tied transfer wise.  Coupled with players bombing out of the club at short notice not a lot he could do other than  pander to the likes of fat Gabby.

As for Wilkins who actually knows  his influence on the training pitch and the club.

Give me them two over the Frenchman any day.

Sorry - he had his hands tied transferwise?

He personally chose Richards, Gestede and Lescott. That's right - he thought Rudy Gestede was worth £5 million. And was in the press taking credit for the signings of Traore and Veretout - been tracking them for years apparently.

Who knows Wilkins' influence over the training pitch and club? Anyone who has watched Villa this season. He had no influence.

Spot on  let's not forget who brought those three in. I want to weep when anyone mentions Gestede and 5 million in the same sentence. Surely the worst business ever ??

I think it was more than 5m.

And that whole "yeah but Tim never wanted the French players" line is based on a misconception that they're the players who have let us down, rather than the likes of that fat c*** Agbonlahor, Lescott the pocket tweeter and Richards the useless fucking lump.

Those are the players most responsible for our demise, not the likes of Amavi, Ayew, Gana, Veretout.

Correct - Tim wanted Richards and Lescott I take it.

[SheffieldVillain]

It's common knowledge that the "recruitment staff" (paddy reilly)was far too influencial in the summer. It's been discussed at length on here.

Is it? If anything the "recruitment staff" seem to have recruited some of our more talented players of the incoming transfers - Amavi, Ayew, Gana, Traore, Veretout. The "football staff" seem to have landed us with Micah "The Big I Am" Richards, Joleon "Run? You must be joking" Lescott and a striker with the movement and ball skills of a lampost.

[saunders_heroes]

Sherwood was hardly gonna announce those signings as "I didn't actually want him but I'll take him anyway" now was he?

[PeterWithesShin]

I reckon what ViD says is pretty much how it was. I don't believe for a second they signed players without input from Sherwood.

[SheffieldVillain]

Sherwood was hardly gonna announce those signings as "I didn't actually want him but I'll take him anyway" now was he?

No. So "He's a promising player and I'm sure he'll help the squad" would have been fine.

"I've been tracking him for years", "I tried to sign him for Tottenham" etc is a little different.

[saunders_heroes]

I'm sure we signed players with input from Sherwood as well but I'm also sure we signed players without his input to, which is absolute madness and is always gonna end in tear eventually.
I don't like this 'moneyball system', I'd prefer a strong manager who chooses his players on his own judgement or people he trusts.

[PeterWithesShin]

Good job we never used the moneyball system then.

[pauliewalnuts]

I'm sure we signed players with input from Sherwood as well but I'm also sure we signed players without his input to, which is absolute madness and is always gonna end in tear eventually.
I don't like this 'moneyball system', I'd prefer a strong manager who chooses his players on his own judgement or people he trusts.

Veretout said, after Sherwood got sacked, that he never spoke to him.

Regardless of whether Sherwood chased Veretout for months, or Reilly signed him on the back of a weird dream, or that student in Australia 'scouted' him for us, for Sherwood to decide not to talk to a player we'd invested money in is criminal.

I recall at Spurs there were the exact same stories about him and Lamela.

[DaveD]

think this all a bit  harsh on Wilkins and Sherwood. 

Sherwood got us out of a hole last season and had his hands tied transfer wise.  Coupled with players bombing out of the club at short notice not a lot he could do other than  pander to the likes of fat Gabby.

As for Wilkins who actually knows  his influence on the training pitch and the club.

Give me them two over the Frenchman any day.

Sorry - he had his hands tied transferwise?

He personally chose Richards, Gestede and Lescott. That's right - he thought Rudy Gestede was worth £5 million. And was in the press taking credit for the signings of Traore and Veretout - been tracking them for years apparently.

Who knows Wilkins' influence over the training pitch and club? Anyone who has watched Villa this season. He had no influence.

Spot on  let's not forget who brought those three in. I want to weep when anyone mentions Gestede and 5 million in the same sentence. Surely the worst business ever ??

Yep.

Just for an added spot of misery, his quotes on his signings

On Richards

"I'm really pleased to get Micah on board and I'm sure he will prove to be an excellent signing for the football club. Micah is a winner. He helped Manchester City win their first Premier League title in 44 years, has won the FA Cup and has played in the Champions League.

On Gestede

"I've known about Rudy since he was at Cardiff and he is a player I've always admired," said Sherwood. "His goalscoring ratio last season was fantastic and he is someone who certainly knows how to find the back of the net."

On the players that he was 'forced to sign'
Traore -

He's someone I have been tracking for a long time. He's physically a man - and he has been for some time.

Gueye -

"I'm really pleased to have brought Idrissa on board. He's been one of the best young midfielders in France for the last few seasons and there were a lot of teams trying to sign him this summer.

Amavi -

"It’s someone we’ve been tracking for a long time."

Crespo -

"José is a player who has been on our radar for some time and we’re really pleased to secure his signature"

Ayew -

“I’m really pleased to bring Jordan to the football club. He is a fantastic young player who is perfectly suited to the Premier League.”

Whether he was involved or not - what the fuck else is he going to say ?

I don't give our managers a free pass, but you have to look at the long track and decide if they were really the root cause or just another symptom.

[SheffieldVillain]

Whether he was involved or not - what the fuck else is he going to say ?

I don't give our managers a free pass, but you have to look at the long track and decide if they were really the root cause or just another symptom.

As I said in my previous post, there is a difference between 'he's a player with potential' and 'I tried to sign him for my previous club, I've been tracking him for years'. That's what he could have said.

Also, the comments highlighted regarding Gestede and Richards were almost the polar opposite to what we have come to find out about them.

I'm not sure if you have read back further, but the post was in reply to a poster saying we were being harsh on Sherwood, he had operated with his hands tied behind his back and he was much better than 'the Frenchman'. The point I was making was that Sherwood was firmly involved in constructing the squad, in particular purchasing two of the major causes of unrest in the dressing room, and was much more to blame for this season than Remi Garde.

I would question 'symptom' and rather say 'contributory cause'. No, Sherwood couldn't have made up for Lerner's poor management. But signing a striker rather than Gestede, and bringing influences like Lescott and Richards into the dressing room didn't help. Neither did ostracising the French players thus encouraging the obvious cliques that formed. Lerner didn't cause Sherwood to make those mistakes, Sherwood made them because he's a poor manager.

You're right, the result of the season is the end game of the mismanagement of the club. But taking this season in isolation, we would have been a damn sight better off without Sherwood's mistakes, Lerner or no Lerner. 

[Monty]

This is just what we're going to have to deal with. Everyone will have their side to the story: what we'll have to do is find all the bits they don't want us to know and piece then together to form one incompetent whole: that's the most likely to be true.

[SheffieldVillain]

This is just what we're going to have to deal with. Everyone will have their side to the story: what we'll have to do is find all the bits they don't want us to know and piece then together to form one incompetent whole: that's the most likely to be true.

Undoubtedly there's far more to come, isn't there? I have the feeling that over the next couple of months we'll be even more gobsmacked at some of the stuff that emerges.