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Author Topic: Hillsborough  (Read 43307 times)

Offline p_ad

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #345 on: November 29, 2019, 11:57:50 PM »
Honestly what can you say, the stories get more damming as more evidence becomes available, words really do fail me

Online kippaxvilla2

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #346 on: November 30, 2019, 11:34:58 AM »
Am I missing something?  Wasnít he found not guilty by 10 good men and women true?  Genuine question as Iím struggling with the outrage.  Thatís the judicial process we follow isnít it? And this one has had two trials is it? I know it sounds ridiculous on the face of it given what happened but what else could have happened apart from the bloke going on trial and facing his accusers.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 12:25:48 PM by kippaxvilla2 »

Offline p_ad

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #347 on: November 30, 2019, 12:00:56 PM »
Read the tweet posted by Dave woodhall , that's the outrage

Online kippaxvilla2

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #348 on: November 30, 2019, 12:15:25 PM »
Do we just keep having trials until heís found guilty then?  If we were in the same position then we would accept that?  I accept that him being found not guilty and the victims being unlawfully killed doesnít square.  But again Iím struggling to see what else could be done.  In Mackrells case If I remember correctly he got off relatively lightly which I found to be a total disgrace given the obvious cesspit condition this ground was in (as others were) during that period and the lapses safety certificate.

Going back to the allegations of one sided summing up by the judge then that would need to be looked into.  Not sure if they can appeal anything on those grounds and If so then they should do so.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 12:24:56 PM by kippaxvilla2 »

Offline AVH87

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #349 on: November 30, 2019, 08:37:04 PM »
If I was in their position I'd want someone to blame too, but, he didn't open the gate with the deaths of innocent people in mind, he isn't a murderer. Same as people on a night out who drink too much and accidentally kill someone with one punch, it's awful, but they aren't murderers.

Offline JD

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #350 on: November 30, 2019, 09:02:03 PM »
Of everything I've read about Hillsborough, this is the most heartbreaking.


https://twitter.com/charlhennessy1/status/1200372275658285056

Iím speechless

K'in hell. Me as well. Disgraceful.

Online Richard E

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #351 on: November 30, 2019, 09:20:50 PM »
If I was in their position I'd want someone to blame too, but, he didn't open the gate with the deaths of innocent people in mind, he isn't a murderer. Same as people on a night out who drink too much and accidentally kill someone with one punch, it's awful, but they aren't murderers.

You donít have to be a murderer to be criminally culpable for someone elseís death. Nobody is suggesting he did it deliberately.

Offline Rico

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #352 on: December 01, 2019, 10:53:58 AM »
I remember going to Hillsborough that season. It was the first time I had been to that stadium. If memory serves me right I think it was quite early in the season, and I spent the first half of the match in that central pen. I also remember thinking that we must have took thousands to that match because it was packed in that middle pen. It wasn't until the second half that Villa fans started to spread out into the other pens to the left and right that the overcrowding ended and you could see that we hadn't actually took that many fans to that match. Maybe 1500 or so.

When the disaster happened I immediately thought back to that day and remembered the tunnel was the first thing that visiting fans could see on entering the ground. You could also see a small glimpse of the pitch which sort of enticed you into the central pen. It goes without saying that the Leppings Lane end was a disaster waiting to happen and for the life of me I can never understand why Liverpool who are a much bigger club than Forest were allocated that end rather than the Kop.

In my opinion the Leppings Lane end should have been demolished as a mark of respect to the dead Liverpool fans. It was not fit for purpose before and it still isn't. Anyone who went to Sheffield when we played there for BFR's first game in charge will remember that it was still dangerously overcrowded and the South Yorkshire Police had learnt nothing from the experience and still treated fans like vermin. Disgraceful!

UTV

Offline dave.woodhall

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #353 on: December 01, 2019, 10:55:20 AM »
If I was in their position I'd want someone to blame too, but, he didn't open the gate with the deaths of innocent people in mind, he isn't a murderer. Same as people on a night out who drink too much and accidentally kill someone with one punch, it's awful, but they aren't murderers.

But they do get found guilty of manslaughter and go to prison.

Offline Somniloquism

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #354 on: December 01, 2019, 10:56:21 AM »
If I was in their position I'd want someone to blame too, but, he didn't open the gate with the deaths of innocent people in mind, he isn't a murderer. Same as people on a night out who drink too much and accidentally kill someone with one punch, it's awful, but they aren't murderers.

But they do get found guilty of manslaughter and go to prison.

And probably get stiffer sentences for lying, coverups and not admitting guilt.

Online Richard E

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #355 on: December 02, 2019, 04:53:26 PM »
If I was in their position I'd want someone to blame too, but, he didn't open the gate with the deaths of innocent people in mind, he isn't a murderer. Same as people on a night out who drink too much and accidentally kill someone with one punch, it's awful, but they aren't murderers.

But they do get found guilty of manslaughter and go to prison.

The Judge at Duckenfield's first trial told him at the outset that he would not be sent to prison even if he was convicted! What an absolutely remarkable thing to say to a defendant accused of causing nearly 100 deaths through negligence so gross it meets the criminal standard.

Offline purpletrousers

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #356 on: December 02, 2019, 05:54:19 PM »

Offline Marlon From Bearwood

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #357 on: December 02, 2019, 09:44:52 PM »
I totally agree that the Leppings Lane stand shouldíve been demolished and rebuilt. The fact that the only thing thatís changed is fixing some seats onto the old terrace is pretty unbelievable.

I was sat (stood) in the lower tier for our game back in April so had to walk Ďthe tunnelí to get to and from my seat. Something about that still didnít quite feel right.

Offline Hopadop

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #358 on: December 02, 2019, 10:43:28 PM »
If I was in their position I'd want someone to blame too, but, he didn't open the gate with the deaths of innocent people in mind, he isn't a murderer. Same as people on a night out who drink too much and accidentally kill someone with one punch, it's awful, but they aren't murderers.

But they do get found guilty of manslaughter and go to prison.

The Judge at Duckenfield's first trial told him at the outset that he would not be sent to prison even if he was convicted! What an absolutely remarkable thing to say to a defendant accused of causing nearly 100 deaths through negligence so gross it meets the criminal standard.

The judge dealt with the question of prison at pp36-37 of his Ruling dealing with the application to stay the prosecution:

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/JCO/Documents/Judgments/duckenfield-and-murray-ruling.pdf

It was unusual, but as he says it was an unusual case and he was a brave judge. He was clearly influenced by the fact the families (or at least those represented by the HFSG at the time of the private prosecution) didn't want prison sentences. It was a mistake, and in hindsight a bad one, but he was a decent and humane judge.

Anyway the whole Ruling is interesting.

Offline pauliewalnuts

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Re: Hillsborough
« Reply #359 on: April 02, 2020, 10:37:28 PM »
I just read that Peter Jones, the BBC broadcaster, died 30 years ago today.

I can't hear his name without thinking back to this. What a stunning, dignified, heart-wrenching piece of broadcasting. I wonder if this was the day he 'started' to die.


 


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