Matt Lowton in The Times

[Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle]

When I read of cliques at Villa, why do I think of Gabby Agbonlahor?

I do too.

Yes there is a common factor since O'Neil left. Managers and fans in awe of him - the lazy, underperforming areshole fucking cretin on 50k+ a week. Makes David Bentley look like a model pro.

Interesting that Shearer identified him as one of the many who didn't give a fuck when we were a goal or two down.

[Somniloquism]

Never a Premier League player. Like most of our squad since O'Neill left.

That's missing the point though, in my opinion.  The 'news' here is that the environment at villa was not good and where he is now is more conducive to becoming a better footballer.

In the Champoinship...

It does't matter what league a club is in, it should be a priority to optimise the ability of every player regardless of their potential ceiling.  Reading between the lines, the cliques Lowton described, where clearly not helping his development.

Exactly right. A team that contains ex French and English lower division players and limited defenders is currently topping the league. That is because they are being massively optimised by there current manager.

[Proposition Joe]

Remember his goal at Stoke away. Great match that.  Seems a lifetime ago

That, and wasn't there a wonder-pass (well, by our recent standards) in the hammering of Sunderland as well?

[Olof's Beard]

When I read of cliques at Villa, why do I think of Gabby Agbonlahor?

I do too.

Yes there is a common factor since O'Neil left. Managers and fans in awe of him - the lazy, underperforming areshole fucking cretin on 50k+ a week. Makes David Bentley look like a model pro.

Interesting that Shearer identified him as one of the many who didn't give a fuck when we were a goal or two down.

He didn't give a fuck when it was 0-0. Hutton went on a mazy run in the first half and Gabby just watched him go past him, didn't even try to make it look like he was trying to support. Hutton eventually got crowded out by the last man. Pathetic.

[ciggiesnbeer]

Remember his goal at Stoke away. Great match that.  Seems a lifetime ago

That, and wasn't there a wonder-pass (well, by our recent standards) in the hammering of Sunderland as well?

Yes from a great interception he made if I recall.

Happy day that.

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Awful positional sense, director in the air, no pace to speak of. That he's doing well at the side top of the Championship speaks volumes for how poor that league is.

If we've not won the title by the time I'm being forced to buy easter eggs, then I'll be miffed.

[Jimbo]

Awful positional sense, director in the air, no pace to speak of. That he's doing well at the side top of the Championship speaks volumes for how poor that league is.

If we've not won the title by the time I'm being forced to buy easter eggs, then I'll be miffed.

But as his article suggests, his team are together, ours isn't. It's not always the quality of individual players that wins titles (as we may find out soon with Leicester) but their attitude, team spirit, togetherness and will to win. Villa have absolutely none of those qualities, and haven't for years, which is why we won't be winning the Championship any time soon.

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Not without backing the manager to actually purchase a spine for the side no. But I think we will and get things right for the first time in five years, despite Lerner.

Confidence is fine and can be bred, but there's got to be some quality in the first instance amongst a side to do it. I watched Burnley yesterday and they reminded me of Megson's Albion. And they're top. In the top flight they'd have been beaten yesterday, but Blackburn are poor, and its that absence of quality that makes the league more forgiving for chumps like Lowton.

We will brass that league up and nobody will convince me otherwise.

[Jimbo]

Of course, I hope you're right, but every single shred of evidence based on the last five to ten years of dysfunction screams that you are wrong.

[Olof's Beard]

The sides who do well when relegated are in general very stable. Burnley and Hull kept their managers and the majority of their players last season. We are not in a position to do so on either count and will likely start pre-season with out 4th manager in 15 months, a turnaround of at least 8 or 9 players, an owner who wants to sell up, fuck knows what in the boardroom and five years of stinking negativity and endless defeats.

At this moment we look much more likely to do a QPR than a Hull or Burnley.

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I disagree. I don't foresee a big turn around of playing staff at all. We don't need to sell, although there will be the inevitable exit of a few; some we will be glad to see gone.

Our big advantage is the quality players we do have in relation to the Championship, our disproportionate size compared to all but Newcastle and an equal disproportionate spending power, that only the Norwich and Newcastle if the shed their wage bill and compete with.

[Chris Jameson]

Our big advantage is the quality players we do have in relation to the Championship

Our what?

[Jimbo]

One of the big problems we have is that we're a losing club. Not only has it become ok for players to lose at Villa, they are expected to lose. That mindset won't magically change just because we're in a lower division.

I'd argue that it's easier to stay in the Premier League by being worse than all but three clubs (to be a losing club that just about manages to scrape by), than it is to win the Championship, that is to be a winning club that's better than 23 other clubs.

You need to have the right attitude, confidence and work ethic to succeed, no matter how talented you are, and there's nothing like it at Aston Villa. We're in total disarray. And when every nasty little bunch of ratboys in the Championship is queuing up to have a pop at 'big' Villa, we're going to need every ounce of character and self belief to bat them all away. We just don't have the character.   

[Olof's Beard]

One of the big problems we have is that we're a losing club. Not only has it become ok for players to lose at Villa, they are expected to lose. That mindset won't magically change just because we're in a lower division.

I'd argue that it's easier to stay in the Premier League by being worse than all but three clubs (to be a losing club that just about manages to scrape by), than it is to win the Championship, that is to be a winning club that's better than 23 other clubs.

You need to have the right attitude, confidence and work ethic to succeed, no matter how talented you are, and there's nothing like it at Aston Villa. We're in total disarray. And when every nasty little bunch of ratboys in the Championship is queuing up to have a pop at 'big' Villa, we're going to need every ounce of character and self belief to bat them all away. We just don't have the character.   

Completely agree. We might well be a league down and playing against a poorer quality of player, but I just can't see us suddenly becoming an all-conquering winning side.

Ads, we are looking like we will go down with about 20 points, the third lowest total in the last 23 years. 57 clubs will have gone down in that period with much fewer problems, and two thirds don't come straight back up.  To assume these players are going to have the fortitude or ability to turn themselves into winners in that division is a huge gamble and we certainly can't fall into the trap of thinking that our size will automatically count for anything down there - it could well be a disadvantage.

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Our big advantage is the quality players we do have in relation to the Championship

Our what?

Haha!  I know it seems daft, but referring back to when we played the Noses and all the problems Ayew and Grealish caused them, Gestede's goal and Amavi's cross.

Players like that, with Traore maybe and Sinclair on the bench as an option and we have a lot more quality in those positions than anybody else down there. It needs some determination and leadership right through the middle to allow them to flourish, but that's the task of the summer; players with pace and determined character.